UND goes with SR-20!

[CRJDriver]

http://aero-news.net/news/genav.cfm?...ab47&Dynamic=1

[CAFFEINE]

Yeah, I heard about this a couple weeks ago. Glad we got 'em, I am looking forward to doing CFII in the SR-20 this summer!

[Philip]

in other news, flight costs double

[TheShocker]

Hurah to increasing fees too!!! Am I the only one that doesn't get all wet and excited about glass cockpits?

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

Hurah to increasing fees too!!! Am I the only one that doesn't get all wet and excited about glass cockpits?

LOL you're not alone.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by TheShocker

Hurah to increasing fees too!!! Am I the only one that doesn't get all wet and excited about glass cockpits?

No, but given the choice I sure wouldn't go to UND again, with or without glass cocks.

[JaceTheAce]

OH fabulous!!!!!!!!!! So now instead of 82$ an hour in fees I pay $100-120? Oh nice... very nice. Way to go UND.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. PERIOD.

I love how they sent out those surveys asking students if they'd like to have Cirrus aircraft - I wasn't included in the survey because I wasn't enrolled in a flight course that semester. I would've strongly objected. I bet the kids who's parents are paying for their flight training eagerly voted for it, and even the young 18 yr old's who still yet to know the value of money (assuming they've never had a job). No offense to anyone this young, but when I was 18 I didn't know the value of money until I was out on my own at 19, barely scraping by in San Diego.

This could make or break my decision to continue at UND. Being 24 years old and getting BACK to school after a long 4 years from it, I'd hope to come to UND as a way to save money. The flight training compared to most places isn't that costly, but this Cirrus deal is really getting me concerned.

Does anyone know how much it'll cost per hour? If it's anymore than $10, I'm quitting this school and moving back home to do it Part 61. If it's any bit more than I am willing to pay, this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Jason

[JaceTheAce]

Another issue with glass cockpits... a student doing instrument training in a glass cockpit won't know WHAT THE HELL to do in a steam guage cockpit...which could be what's in his first commercial pilot job.


Two reasons why I'd quit UND if they go to all glass:

1) COST - Hourly flight time in an old Piper J-3 cub is JUST as valuable as flight time in a nice shiny new Cirrus. No need to pay more for something worth much less.
2) Difficulty in transferring from glass to steam guages, as opposed to not-too-difficult transition from steam guages to glass. I don't want to be the dumb idiot not knowing how to fly an old IFR 152...and having to pay $140 an hour at an FBO for the Cirrus SR-20 or 22 (or whatever) instead of paying $65 for the 152 (assuming I'm going to be flying IFR).

[JaceTheAce]

Someone please tell me glass is an OPTION, please please please

[stuckingfk]

I don't think the projected costs will be that much more. Maybe $500 bucks or so.

There are a couple x-countries in 415 and those will be done in about an hour less due to the SR20. Plus, people, you get to fly somethind different. Flying the same darn thing throughout training isn't that fun, plus all it makes everyone is great warrior captains.

When you guys get in 415, you'll be glad you did it in the Cirrus. Trust me.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by lruppert

I don't think the projected costs will be that much more. Maybe $500 bucks or so.

There are a couple x-countries in 415 and those will be done in about an hour less due to the SR20. Plus, people, you get to fly somethind different. Flying the same darn thing throughout training isn't that fun, plus all it makes everyone is great warrior captains.

When you guys get in 415, you'll be glad you did it in the Cirrus. Trust me.

Yep! just like it's cheaper to combine your multi XC's and do them in the baron, because it's faster.

they keep selling that, and no one's buying, or the few that do regret it.

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by Philip

Yep! just like it's cheaper to combine your multi XC's and do them in the baron, because it's faster.

they keep selling that, and no one's buying, or the few that do regret it.

Students love the Baron. Yes it's expensive, but it seems to me that 50% of the students want to use it. It's their choice, and a good one in my opinion.

And what is your beef with UND anyway? Why are you so bitter? Didn't get hired? Didn't want to? The sooner you realize that bashing your alma mater has a negative affect on you, the better off you'll be.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by lruppert

Students love the Baron. Yes it's expensive, but it seems to me that 50% of the students want to use it. It's their choice, and a good one in my opinion.

And what is your beef with UND anyway? Why are you so bitter? Didn't get hired? Didn't want to? The sooner you realize that bashing your alma mater has a negative affect on you, the better off you'll be.

Not bashing, just being honest.
Everybody in my class that took the baron was pissed because they pimped it out as being cheaper in the long run and it wasn't.

I applied there, the semester I applied they hired 11 of 80 or 90 applicants, I sure wasn't going to stick around there making 10 bucks an hour waiting to apply again, so I boogied/escaped

want my .02 on UND? I'll gladly share. Do it before I boogie out of here though.

[UAL747400]

I dont object to making it an option for CFII. I'd probably do it anyway to fly something different so I get some experience on both. But I feel that experience on steam guages is far superior to this nancy boy glass crap. F$%K glass! In bug smashers at least.

As far as the baron goes, I'll probably be flying that just to fly something else. It might not do much for me, but it's one of those "things" I want to do.

[BZNflyer248]

Originally Posted by Philip

Yep! just like it's cheaper to combine your multi XC's and do them in the baron, because it's faster.

they keep selling that, and no one's buying, or the few that do regret it.

They NEVER sell that as being cheaper. In fact they pretty clearly say that its going to cost you an extra 1500 or so to do the XC's in the baron. The ONLY person that MIGHT say that would be your multi instructor - and if thats what he's telling you find someone else. HOWEVER I think getting a little time in the baron is a good expirience. Its a lot more airplane than the seminole and actually forces you to think about descent planning, managing speed and systems etc. I try to take any chance I can to fly in something else - true time in a Cub isn't much less valuble than in a cirrus or anything else when you're looking for total time - but a more wide ranging expirience can be quite valuble. I got a couple hours in the baron during my MEI and I'm VERY glad I spent the extra cash. I can't afford to get the 2 - 2.5 hours more PIC to be able to instruct in it for the time being, and I'm not sure if I will, but it was an excellent expirience. I'm not saying I agree with forcing people to go with the cirrus or fly the baron - but I think its good students have the option, and hey - the majority ruled so if you don't like it, too bad. You can always do that training elsewhere. Just my opinion.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by UAL747400

I dont object to making it an option for CFII. I'd probably do it anyway to fly something different so I get some experience on both. But I feel that experience on steam guages is far superior to this nancy boy glass crap. F$%K glass! In bug smashers at least.

As far as the baron goes, I'll probably be flying that just to fly something else. It might not do much for me, but it's one of those "things" I want to do.

It's just something cool to show off and attract prospective students, nothing more.

[airplanerik]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Someone please tell me glass is an OPTION, please please please

One of the lead instructors came in and talked to out 221 class about it. The new SR-20s aren't really even going to affect us. The students that are coming to UND in 5-10 years are the ones that are going to be experiencing a larger glass cockpit experience. So far, UND is just planning on getting those four SR-20s this December, and we will not even be touching them until 415...IF we want to. It is only in the far future that they are planning on converting most of the fleet to glass -- and like I said, we will not have to worry about it. Even then, they plan on keeping the sims as steam gauges and teaching both. He mentioned how stupid it would be for them to convert everything to glass, and have students leaving here with just glass experience, and then getting a first job (with steam gauges) and not know what to do! The whole thing is kinda in limbo right now, and they don't know what they are doing, but this the latest I have heard. As for now, we will stick with Piper. So don't get to agitated.

[CAFFEINE]

Damn some of you need to calm down. Using the SR-20 is an OPTION now for 415, not a requirement. Here's how I think of it. Sure the SR-20 costs like $30/hr more than the PA-28-161. But it also trues out at something like 150 kts. So really it's not going to be that much more expensive if you CHOOSE to use it in 415, especially since they are making 415 more XC based. I for one will be looking forward to using it this summer in 415. I figure that I have enough PA28-161 time in my training thus far, why not get some time in a new plane?

By the way, I also chose to fly the Baron this semester in 325. And I would recommend it to everyone. Like already mentioned, it really reinforces descent planning, speed management, power management, new systems. It's a handful, but the experience is totally worth it.

[JaceTheAce]

Whelp, sounds like it IS an option. I was quite disappointed at first, but the article did not specify whether or not it was going to replace it's whole fleet with Cirrus. It just made it sound like it.

I don't have a beef with UND, just was quite concerned (with very valid reason) of my flight training costs. Since funds are all coming out of my pocket with MINIMAL student loans, I was freaked out.