New fleet?

[CRJ700]

What are the chances of us getting a new fleet, I took a survey today in 221 to decide if we had interest in getting Cirrus instead of upgrading our warriors now.We look at some of the facts of Cirrus, looked pretty nice with the 156 cruise speed and autopilot and other fancy gizmos but the $30 more per hour didn't look appealing. They said they could transform in 2 years for sure, but wasn't sure if this was true. I also heard we were looking at get diamond multi's. Any idea on if this could actually happen in the next couple of years or what it would take?

[CRJDriver]

I haven't heard anything. If they are going to get some Cirrus planes, they better get the 22s.

[JaceTheAce]

All it takes is money - from the students pocket to be exact. From my pocket to be more exact.

Training in a Cirrus is a complete waist of money. Afterall, time in a Piper Cub is just as valuable as a Mooney Bravo.

[liebhabe]

[ QUOTE ]
What are the chances of us getting a new fleet, I took a survey today in 221 to decide if we had interest in getting Cirrus instead of upgrading our warriors now.We look at some of the facts of Cirrus, looked pretty nice with the 156 cruise speed and autopilot and other fancy gizmos but the $30 more per hour didn't look appealing. They said they could transform in 2 years for sure, but wasn't sure if this was true. I also heard we were looking at get diamond multi's. Any idea on if this could actually happen in the next couple of years or what it would take?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you need a glass panel, autopilot, and 156kt cruise to train private, instrument, or commerical pilots???

It's an absolute waste of money for some things that people will use as a crutch instead of learning how to actually fly the airplane. It's easy to go steam->glass and transition. It's a lot tougher to get all that fancy glass time then have to build time in a 1980 C172 with a single vor and adf, no glass, IFR.

As for the Diamond Twinstars, I still don't get how you do single engine training in them effectively with only one control for both engines. Why not stick with what works? Warriors, arrows, and seminoles have trained countless proficient pilots.

UND is quickly going from great to a waste of money in my opinion.

[JaceTheAce]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are the chances of us getting a new fleet, I took a survey today in 221 to decide if we had interest in getting Cirrus instead of upgrading our warriors now.We look at some of the facts of Cirrus, looked pretty nice with the 156 cruise speed and autopilot and other fancy gizmos but the $30 more per hour didn't look appealing. They said they could transform in 2 years for sure, but wasn't sure if this was true. I also heard we were looking at get diamond multi's. Any idea on if this could actually happen in the next couple of years or what it would take?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you need a glass panel, autopilot, and 156kt cruise to train private, instrument, or commerical pilots???

It's an absolute waste of money for some things that people will use as a crutch instead of learning how to actually fly the airplane. It's easy to go steam->glass and transition. It's a lot tougher to get all that fancy glass time then have to build time in a 1980 C172 with a single vor and adf, no glass, IFR.

As for the Diamond Twinstars, I still don't get how you do single engine training in them effectively with only one control for both engines. Why not stick with what works? Warriors, arrows, and seminoles have trained countless proficient pilots.

UND is quickly going from great to a waste of money in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I think it's all rumors and talk brought out by students. If they brought on the Cirrus, I guarantee all aviation students who actually pay for the training themselves (like me) will drop out of the aviation program with a 50% increase in training costs due to the Cirrus deal.

And I know for sure UND Aerospace upper brass will elect to go with the smarter choice - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[CRJDriver]

Prices will continue to increase every year, that's just the way it works. I was surprised though when I came back to work this fal and saw how much the prices were increased.

As far as new aircraft for UND. I know that Don Dubuque has been in talks with Diamond Aircraft for about two years now.

[CAFFEINE]

I like the idea of going with the SR-20 for avit 415. Seems like overkill for avit 222, but I'd be willing to pay a little extra during CFII to fly the SR-20.

[CAFFEINE]

[ QUOTE ]
But I think it's all rumors and talk brought out by students. If they brought on the Cirrus, I guarantee all aviation students who actually pay for the training themselves (like me) will drop out of the aviation program with a 50% increase in training costs due to the Cirrus deal.


[/ QUOTE ]

I took the survey yesterday in ground school. This is something they are seriously considering for 222 and 415. I pay for all my flight training myself and I would like to use the SR-20 in 415 even if it will cost about $700 more for the course. To me, it would be money well spent. If nothing else, I welcome the challenge/fun of flying a new airplane. I mean, by the time you hit 415 you've got lots of time in a warrior, why not switch it up?

[roundout]

i used the SR20 for CFII 415. the extra cost of the course wasn't worth the trouble. the plane was cool, but it was down for 100hr inspections a lot because of the frequent use. the digital HSI pixels are invisible from the right seat, so all the flying i did, i had to use the backup NAV2 indicator and explain why i would use the HSI if i were flying from the left seat. the cruise performance of the SR20 was quite nice on the cross country trips, i must say. it was also fun to be doing instrument work at 160kts instead of the warrior's 100. all the talk about staying ahead of the airplane is bogus if you're flying a warrior.....gotta put your money where your mouth is if you're flying something faster. made me realize just how cheap talk is.

[JaceTheAce]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I think it's all rumors and talk brought out by students. If they brought on the Cirrus, I guarantee all aviation students who actually pay for the training themselves (like me) will drop out of the aviation program with a 50% increase in training costs due to the Cirrus deal.


[/ QUOTE ]

I took the survey yesterday in ground school. This is something they are seriously considering for 222 and 415. I pay for all my flight training myself and I would like to use the SR-20 in 415 even if it will cost about $700 more for the course. To me, it would be money well spent. If nothing else, I welcome the challenge/fun of flying a new airplane. I mean, by the time you hit 415 you've got lots of time in a warrior, why not switch it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we were talking about forcing students to use the Cirrus from 102 through double-eye That would be a bad idea. Perhaps it may be nice for someone to use the Cirrus for a small part of the instrument course, but should still be an option like it currently is.

[Screaming_Emu]

While I do think glass panels and cirrus' are not good ideas for primary students, I do think our fleet is missing something that actually has some performance. Granted getting something high performance for one of the later courses would come with some risks, I think that its one thing we really are missing. Granted most of us upon graduation go straight into a warrior or 172 after graduation, I think it would be nice to get some training under your belt in an airplane like a mooney or SR-22 where you really have to plan ahead and be sharp. I think being exposed to something like that with an instructor would really help make us a little sharper when we come out of here.

[liebhabe]

[ QUOTE ]
While I do think glass panels and cirrus' are not good ideas for primary students, I do think our fleet is missing something that actually has some performance. Granted getting something high performance for one of the later courses would come with some risks, I think that its one thing we really are missing. Granted most of us upon graduation go straight into a warrior or 172 after graduation, I think it would be nice to get some training under your belt in an airplane like a mooney or SR-22 where you really have to plan ahead and be sharp. I think being exposed to something like that with an instructor would really help make us a little sharper when we come out of here.

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Agreed, but I think it needs to come in the form of flying the Baron for multi or something like that. Cirrus is still a fixed gear and essentially fixed prop airplane (since you don't control it). The Mooney isn't too bad, but again for the money I would prefer to get the multi time.

If you want glass and fast, why not go with a Columbia 450? Pressurized comfort at FL220 will get you some good experience as well, not to mention 300kts ground speed.