How does UND work?

[Pilotwannabe1123]

Hi my name is Jerome,

I was looking into the University of North Dakota (UND). I saw that they have the main campus in Grand Forks and 4 or 5 flight training centers on the west coast and the southwest corner. If I attend UND and don't want to move to ND and rather attend another campus will i still receive a degree that says UND? Where will I complete flight training?

Really, how does this work?

[XcalibeR]

I don't know about all of the sister schools, but the one that used to be in Hawaii worked on "2 years in Hawaii, 2 years in ND" schedule. I would assume that the others are the same.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by Pilotwannabe1123

Hi my name is Jerome,

I was looking into the University of North Dakota (UND). I saw that they have the main campus in Grand Forks and 4 or 5 flight training centers on the west coast and the southwest corner. If I attend UND and don't want to move to ND and rather attend another campus will i still receive a degree that says UND? Where will I complete flight training?

Really, how does this work?

If you don't wanna go to ND (who does), then just go to a state school near where you live and train at an FBO. My guess is that their training centers are overpriced FBOs, but I'm not sure.

[TXaviator]

please read all the information about NOT going to UND.

if you dont wanna go to UND, dont use UND's training centers either, because they are set up where you MUST complete the degree/program in ND.

not a good deal.

[Pilotwannabe1123]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

please read all the information about NOT going to UND.

if you dont wanna go to UND, dont use UND's training centers either, because they are set up where you MUST complete the degree/program in ND.

not a good deal.

Thanks buddy!

[Pilotwannabe1123]

Originally Posted by Slugger

If you don't wanna go to ND (who does), then just go to a state school near where you live and train at an FBO. My guess is that their training centers are overpriced FBOs, but I'm not sure.

Thanks man!

[JaceTheAce]

Do NOT go to UND! It is very overpriced now and the quality of training has diminished since I've graduated there. It had a good training program that was very affordable before 2005, but now this is not the case.

Avoid UND!!! Go to a state school and get your non-aviation degree and do your flight training with either an FBO or flying club (with flying club instructors). You'll get a MUCH better quality training at a much smaller price.

[oktex88]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Do NOT go to UND! It is very overpriced now and the quality of training has diminished since I've graduated there. It had a good training program that was very affordable before 2005, but now this is not the case.

What do you base your view of "quality of training" on? You said you have graduated so I don't see how you would know whether or not the quality of training has diminished or not.

I find the rates that UND charges for planes and instructors is VERY resonable when compared to FBOs. Especially glass cockpit aircraft.

When I did the math, if I went to another college and did all my training at a FBO the price would be similar.

Do the math for yourself and check out the school for yourself. Don't let a few rotten eggs on a forum angry at the industry keep you away from a good school.

[WIFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by oktex88

Do the math for yourself and check out the school for yourself. Don't let a few rotten eggs on a forum angry at the industry keep you away from a good school.

^^ This.

Almost every opinion you are going to find is going to be totally for or totally against. Take each one with a grain of salt and make the decision on your own. Every aviation school is going to cost a lot of money, you just have to weigh the benefits and figure out what it is that YOU want.

As far as the satellite schools go, you usually finish up with the commercial/multi/instrument at the satellite school and transfer to UND to do CFI, CFII, and the CRJ sim if your plan is to major in commercial aviation. A friend of mine transfered from the school in Arizona to UND, 3 years in Arizona and 1 year at UND.

[PGT]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

Do NOT go to UND! It is very overpriced now and the quality of training has diminished since I've graduated there. It had a good training program that was very affordable before 2005, but now this is not the case.

Avoid UND!!! Go to a state school and get your non-aviation degree and do your flight training with either an FBO or flying club (with flying club instructors). You'll get a MUCH better quality training at a much smaller price.

Save your time, you know they won't listen.

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by PGT

Save your time, you know they won't listen.

So freakin' sad.

[Thunder-Robo]

I love this...

Im a current UND Student, Both my parents are in the aviation industry, I've went the FBO path, Flew our own SR22 / DA42, heck, i've even towed gliders for a glider club, flew grandcaravans in Africa, and now i'm at a collage.

here's my 100% truthful rant.

DO NOT COME TO UND unless you have a job lined up for you once you graduate (and that's NOT 99% of you out there) Sure, the aircraft here are in pretty good shape, and it's no ma and pa operation, but there is a LOT of BS that comes along with that.
Flight training here is EXPENSIVE
Flight training here is in-personal (141 TCOs)
Lots of dumb UND regulations...
The list goes on...

And when the average student graduates... they'll be stuck in the UND Bubble.
GPS everything, FOLLOW THE PINK LINE!! (i was asked why i flew my x-country leg with VORs and not with the GPS... [i was on a victor airway])
Glass everything, no idea how to do ILSs on the 6pack (especially true now that all steam warriors have been phased out, and all we have left are 6p are Semis and arrows... which is due to be phased out soon from what i hear)
$100,000+ in debt

Why am i here?
Well because my parents wants me to get a 4 year degree before i go into this industry of long hours and crappy pay, and being the lazy pile that i am, what's easier then getting a BS (no, not the science kind...)degree like commercial aviation or Flight ed!?!

Tuition and flying is being paid for as part of my dad's pension.

If it wasn't for that, you wouldn't find me dead here in this frozen wasteland...

Reasons to go to a local collage/university + flying on the side?
Sure, it might cost roughly the same, but at lease you'll have a useful degree!
Wont be trapped in the UND Bubble
Can take the flying step by step instead be being pushed thru (money wise and skill wise)

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Thunder-Robo

I love this...

Im a current UND Student, Both my parents are in the aviation industry, I've went the FBO path, Flew our own SR22 / DA42, heck, i've even towed gliders for a glider club, flew grandcaravans in Africa, and now i'm at a collage.

here's my 100% truthful rant.

DO NOT COME TO UND unless you have a job lined up for you once you graduate (and that's NOT 99% of you out there)

Sure, the aircraft here are in pretty good shape, and it's no ma and pa operation, but there is a LOT of BS that comes along with that.

Flight training here is EXPENSIVE
Flight training here is in-personal (141 TCOs)
Lots of dumb UND regulations...
The list goes on...

And when the average student graduates... they'll be stuck in the UND Bubble.
GPS everything, FOLLOW THE PINK LINE!! (i was asked why i flew my x-country leg with VORs and not with the GPS... [i was on a victor airway])
Glass everything, no idea how to do ILSs on the 6pack (especially true now that all steam warriors have been phased out, and all we have left are 6p are Semis and arrows... which is due to be phased out soon from what i hear)
$100,000+ in debt

got any hookup to the C208 gig in africa? passport in hand (and i speak french a bit!)

and "quality of training"...

well....i think 7 landing/takeoff incidents or accidents in the past 60 days, that speaks for itself. including one hull loss and one gear-upped seminole *with an instructor on board*...

duhhhhhh

[Thunder-Robo]

Originally Posted by oktex88

What do you base your view of "quality of training" on? You said you have graduated so I don't see how you would know whether or not the quality of training has diminished or not.

Seeing my CFI trying to teach me about spins after he/she has only done two spin flights herself is Laughable. Most Canadian Private Pilots have more spin time then the average UND CFI, (with exception of the Acro and spin instructors of course)

Seeing CFIs land semis gear up... well... that just speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by oktex88

I find the rates that UND charges for planes and instructors is VERY resonable when compared to FBOs. Especially glass cockpit aircraft.

Learning to fly on a glass cockpit from the start is really nothing more then a builder of bad habits.

[Thunder-Robo]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

got any hookup to the C208 gig in africa? passport in hand (and i speak french a bit!)

and "quality of training"...

well....i think 7 landing/takeoff incidents or accidents in the past 60 days, that speaks for itself. including one hull loss and one gear-upped seminole *with an instructor on board*...

duhhhhhh

Well... If you'll fly for free, i can get your free turbine time... It was for non-profit church organization.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by Thunder-Robo

Seeing my CFI trying to teach me about spins after he/she has only done two spin flights herself is Laughable. Most Canadian Private Pilots have more spin time then the average UND CFI, (with exception of the Acro and spin instructors of course)

Haha love it>

my CFI trying to teach me about spins

100 Percent agree but its really the only opportunity we get to do spins with out doing Acro. One thing to note just because we have the CFI title doesnt mean we know everything. IF a student has done spins for example and can share their knowledge with me, im all for it. Ive been instructing for almost a year and have to say I have learned so much from students. Teach your instructor a thing or two as long as your not getting charged for it.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Thunder-Robo

Well... If you'll fly for free, i can get your free turbine time... It was for non-profit church organization.

negative. got bills to pay. thanks for the idea tho! id love to spend some more time in africa.

[Thunder-Robo]

Originally Posted by av8or91

Haha love it>

100 Percent agree but its really the only opportunity we get to do spins with out doing Acro. One thing to note just because we have the CFI title doesnt mean we know everything. IF a student has done spins for example and can share their knowledge with me, im all for it. Ive been instructing for almost a year and have to say I have learned so much from students. Teach your instructor a thing or two as long as your not getting charged for it.

Nothing against UND CFIs or it's program, but just trying to point out that you're not getting anything special from UND for all the extra money they're charging you.

Originally Posted by TXaviator

negative. got bills to pay. thanks for the idea tho! id love to spend some more time in africa.

yeah... don't we all, nowadays. You haven't been getting dajavu and rolling those poor 172s over have you? (:

[WIFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by Thunder-Robo

I love this...

Im a current UND Student, Both my parents are in the aviation industry, I've went the FBO path, Flew our own SR22 / DA42, heck, i've even towed gliders for a glider club, flew grandcaravans in Africa, and now i'm at a collage.

here's my 100% truthful rant.

DO NOT COME TO UND unless you have a job lined up for you once you graduate (and that's NOT 99% of you out there) Sure, the aircraft here are in pretty good shape, and it's no ma and pa operation, but there is a LOT of BS that comes along with that.
Flight training here is EXPENSIVE
Flight training here is in-personal (141 TCOs)
Lots of dumb UND regulations...
The list goes on...

And when the average student graduates... they'll be stuck in the UND Bubble.
GPS everything, FOLLOW THE PINK LINE!! (i was asked why i flew my x-country leg with VORs and not with the GPS... [i was on a victor airway])
Glass everything, no idea how to do ILSs on the 6pack (especially true now that all steam warriors have been phased out, and all we have left are 6p are Semis and arrows... which is due to be phased out soon from what i hear)
$100,000+ in debt

Why am i here?
Well because my parents wants me to get a 4 year degree before i go into this industry of long hours and crappy pay, and being the lazy pile that i am, what's easier then getting a BS (no, not the science kind...)degree like commercial aviation or Flight ed!?!

Tuition and flying is being paid for as part of my dad's pension.

If it wasn't for that, you wouldn't find me dead here in this frozen wasteland...

Reasons to go to a local collage/university + flying on the side?
Sure, it might cost roughly the same, but at lease you'll have a useful degree!
Wont be trapped in the UND Bubble
Can take the flying step by step instead be being pushed thru (money wise and skill wise)

A lot of truth to this. So many kids go to UND and dont have a clue what they are going to do when they graduate. People always ask me what im going to do after i graduate and I tell them it involves flight instruction in a 172/180 on floats and a Caravan on amphibs, along with some other 135 stuff. Everyone says thats cool, but when i ask them what they are going to do, no one has any idea. Most fall into the "well i think ill just try to be an instructor at UND", so if thats what you want to do go for it. You will find many individuals that are here just becuase mommy and daddy want them to be and have no clue.

You will definetly trained to be a UND bubble pilot unless you get certain instructors. Most just follow the UND standarization BS and try to teach you to be an airline pilot(so they say), i think its all BS, but ill leave that up to you. Like Thunder-Robo said, there are way too many policies and procedures that make flying a chore to complete on time.

My biggest complaint is that its not what flying is supposed to be, but thats the way things are done here, like it or not.

I think i see it differently than most others, since i came here with outside training. Unlike most students here, the only flying experience they have is UND. Go out and see the real flying world, not the UND bubble.

[Thunder-Robo]

Originally Posted by WIFlyBoy

A friend of mine transfered from the school in Arizona to UND, 3 years in Arizona and 1 year at UND.

Dominic.D?

[av8or91]

When I came here I thought I would go straight to the airlines after graduation. Obviously times have changed but one of my students still believes he is going to fly a CRJ after doing the CRJ course. I tried to tell him but didnt want to burst his bubble. I think a lot of students are completely oblivious to the industry right now.

[Thunder-Robo]

Originally Posted by av8or91

When I came here I thought I would go straight to the airlines after graduation. Obviously times have changed but one of my students still believes he is going to fly a CRJ after doing the CRJ course. I tried to tell him but didnt want to burst his bubble. I think a lot of students are completely oblivious to the industry right now.

So true. No one's hiring here, so we're all SOL unless you're willing to be based in India, China, ect.. Cathy, Air China, Air India, ect... is still doing their cadet program, so that should give you an idea oh how things are there... (Although i would not usually put Cathy and HongKong in the same category as the other aforementioned)

[WIFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by Thunder-Robo

Dominic.D?

Nope.

[WIFlyBoy]

There are also some phenomenal CFI's here, sadly for every one of those, there are 10 retard instructors that shouldn't be teaching. Throughout my training here I have been pretty fortunate, only having 1 bad instructor. A big contributor to this lack of good CFI ratio is the recent hiring. It used to be very competitive and hard to be a CFI here, recently UND went with the policy of "you've got a cfi certificate and a pulse? heres a job".

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by WIFlyBoy

There are also some phenomenal CFI's here, sadly for every one of those, there are 10 retard instructors that shouldn't be teaching. Throughout my training here I have been pretty fortunate, only having 1 bad instructor. A big contributor to this lack of good CFI ratio is the recent hiring. It used to be very competitive and hard to be a CFI here, recently UND went with the policy of "you've got a cfi certificate and a pulse? heres a job".

Your absolutely right there are some good instructors here. How did those instructors become good? By instructing a good amount so people have to start somewhere. When those good instructor leave for bigger things, those people who are not as good right now are going to be some of the best. Its a cycle.

Hiring was competetive but I think during the last hiring session if you had boobs and vagina you were in. Not saying its a bad thing or being sexist but there were definitely some more experienced instructors who did not get the job.