UND CFI's cant land.

[TXaviator]

So, word i get from a current CFI is that UND will be having retraining of their CFI's "due to too many tailstrikes and wrinkled firewalls"...

are you SERIOUS??? your CFI's cant LAND A 172????

unbelievable.

[Jbroz04]

how do you wrinkle a firewall? nose first landing?

[Roger, Roger]

Originally Posted by Jbroz04

how do you wrinkle a firewall? nose first landing?

Yup.

I'm guessing that it's not the CFIs that can't land.

I'm guessing they just can't teach their students to land and the students are the ones wrinkling firewalls and striking tails.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

Yup.

I'm guessing that it's not the CFIs that can't land.

I'm guessing they just can't teach their students to land and the students are the ones wrinkling firewalls and striking tails.

And thus the CFI needs to take control of the situation before allowing it to cause damage to the aircraft....

[AngelFuree]

lol this is gonna be a long thread.

[av8or91]

4 accidents since July. Its not so much the CFI's cant land but more its the students who are having trouble landing. I just flew a plane the other day which was written up for a prop strike on landing. I really hate pointing the finger at people but it seems 1 group of students is having an issue with this. Its probably more of an instructor issue too because they have brand new CFI's teaching these students which just seems like a bad mix.(Blind leading the blind) Let the firestorm begin...

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by av8or91

4 accidents since July. Its not so much the CFI's cant land but more its the students who are having trouble landing. I just flew a plane the other day which was written up for a prop strike on landing. I really hate pointing the finger at people but it seems 1 group of students is having an issue with this. Its probably more of an instructor issue too because they have brand new CFI's teaching these students which just seems like a bad mix.(Blind leading the blind) Let the firestorm begin...

whoa what? we shouldnt have 250hr CFI's teaching new students???

i still fail to understand how we (collectively as an industry) think its a great idea for some wet-ink pilot's first job to be TEACHING to someone else.

[HeimerPilot]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

whoa what? we shouldnt have 250hr CFI's teaching new students???

i still fail to understand how we (collectively as an industry) think its a great idea for some wet-ink pilot's first job to be TEACHING to someone else.

But which is worse, a 250 hour instructor, or a 250 hour regional FO? Gotta build hours somewhere.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

whoa what? we shouldnt have 250hr CFI's teaching new students???

i still fail to understand how we (collectively as an industry) think its a great idea for some wet-ink pilot's first job to be TEACHING to someone else.

There are those of us that can cut it as a CFI at 250 hr's without damaging the airplane and killing themselves and those of us who can not. From your posts in other threads along with this one it seems that if you got your CFI's you would fall into the later.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

whoa what? we shouldnt have 250hr CFI's teaching new students???

i still fail to understand how we (collectively as an industry) think its a great idea for some wet-ink pilot's first job to be TEACHING to someone else.

I gave my first dual at 210 hours. I'll admit, I felt useless and didnt quite know what to say in the right way so the student next to me would understand it. But, we gotta start somewhere right?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by HeimerPilot

But which is worse, a 250 hour instructor, or a 250 hour regional FO? Gotta build hours somewhere.

false choice fallacy.

try again?

i didnt say that you should go hop in a jet with 50 people behind you either.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by jhugz

There are those of us that can cut it as a CFI at 250 hr's without damaging the airplane and killing themselves and those of us who can not. From your posts in other threads along with this one it seems that if you got your CFI's you would fall into the later.

so youre genuinely telling me that at 250 hours, you have ALL THE EXPERIENCE YOU NEED to really give someone a quality education about flying an aircraft in all situations?

damn, must have been a really action packed first 250 hours you had!!

i mean hell, since at 250 hours you obviously already knew EVERYTHING and could convey that IMMENSE and VAST KNOWLEDGE to a brand new student, why didnt you just go jump in the space shuttle and take us to mars??

i could ONLY be so LUCKY as to have you sign my logbook!!!

[ml_wd]

I wish Txaviator was my CFI.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by ml_wd

I wish Txaviator was my CFI.

LOL oh man, i wouldnt wish me CFI'ing someone on my worst enemy!

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

so youre genuinely telling me that at 250 hours, you have ALL THE EXPERIENCE YOU NEED to really give someone a quality education about flying an aircraft in all situations?

damn, must have been a really action packed first 250 hours you had!!

i mean hell, since at 250 hours you obviously already knew EVERYTHING and could convey that IMMENSE and VAST KNOWLEDGE to a brand new student, why didnt you just go jump in the space shuttle and take us to mars??

i could ONLY be so LUCKY as to have you sign my logbook!!!

"Read, speak, and understand the English language" fail.

[tprops4me]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

whoa what? we shouldnt have 250hr CFI's teaching new students???

i still fail to understand how we (collectively as an industry) think its a great idea for some wet-ink pilot's first job to be TEACHING to someone else.

I believe that even the Air Force allows the top students of UPT to become instructors. In a sense it is the same. Not the curriculum. Just the idea of a new pilot teaching others the game. Seems to work fine for them.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

babble

No, but I was able to effectively go out and do my job. Was I as good as a 5000 dual given CFI? Of course not.

Am I able to take a pilot from scratch and make him into a safe pilot? Absolutely.

It sounds like the problem here is not the 250 hr. CFI's but the 250 hr. CFI's out of UND that were trained by UND.

But hey they will be in a jet before any of us because they have that coveted 4 year degree from the Ivy League in the Sky Part Deux.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by tprops4me

I believe that even the Air Force allows the top students of UPT to become instructors. In a sense it is the same. Not the curriculum. Just the idea of a new pilot teaching others the game. Seems to work fine for them.

in any other industry you'd be looked at as absolutely freaking loony if you suggested such a scheme. and in fact, im SURE if the wider public knew that fresh pilots were training other fresh pilots, there would be serious waves....

example: medicine.

lets get some kids who just finished med school, and have them train new doctors, without themselves ever having practiced medicine on their own!

are you kidding me?? this idea of fresh new pilots teaching other fresh new pilots is absolute lunacy.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

in any other industry you'd be looked at as absolutely freaking loony if you suggested such a scheme. and in fact, im SURE if the wider public knew that fresh pilots were training other fresh pilots, there would be serious waves....

example: medicine.

lets get some kids who just finished med school, and have them train new doctors, without themselves ever having practiced medicine on their own!

are you kidding me?? this idea of fresh new pilots teaching other fresh new pilots is absolute lunacy.

The basis of this is someone who said "some CFIs can prevent their students from causing accidents, and some can't" which you used to launch into a rant accusing the guy of knowing ALL HE NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE A CFI (and you looked like a real ass).

But as a non-CFI wouldn't this thread would sort of be like some random Joe off the street (you) telling doctor's the right thing to do? Just because you've received medical care doesn't really give you the experience to critique medical school policies

[ml_wd]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

in any other industry you'd be looked at as absolutely freaking loony if you suggested such a scheme. and in fact, im SURE if the wider public knew that fresh pilots were training other fresh pilots, there would be serious waves....

example: medicine.

lets get some kids who just finished med school, and have them train new doctors, without themselves ever having practiced medicine on their own!

are you kidding me?? this idea of fresh new pilots teaching other fresh new pilots is absolute lunacy.

What do you suggest?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by ml_wd

What do you suggest?

well. there are ideas being floated about increasing experience requirements for 121 pilots. i would support increasing experience requirements for CFI's as well.

and @clocks

are you also saying that only previous presidents should be allowed to observe and critique the president's job performance?? because that would be the logical position for you to take if you *really* mean what you say.

[Jbroz04]

I believe that even the Air Force allows the top students of UPT to become instructors. In a sense it is the same. Not the curriculum. Just the idea of a new pilot teaching others the game. Seems to work fine for them

.

The above statement is correct. My instructors son is a navy pilot and his first job after UPT is a UPT instructor in the T-45.

well. there are ideas being floated about increasing experience requirements for 121 pilots. i would support increasing experience requirements for CFI's as well.

I liked the idea that a new CFI must have a mentor CFI watch over him for a certain period of time.

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by Clocks

The basis of this is someone who said "some CFIs can prevent their students from causing accidents, and some can't" which you used to launch into a rant accusing the guy of knowing ALL HE NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE A CFI (and you looked like a real ass).

But as a non-CFI wouldn't this thread would sort of be like some random Joe off the street (you) telling doctor's the right thing to do? Just because you've received medical care doesn't really give you the experience to critique medical school policies

Our great aviator from texas knows everything. He has been out of college for 2 years, has 1000 hrs total time, doesn't use checklists, could teach Chuck Yeager a thing two about flying, and is also fully qualified to critique every flight instrcutor at UND. I hated students like him who thought they knew everything.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Jbroz04

.
I liked the idea that a new CFI must have a mentor CFI watch over him for a certain period of time.

an interesting idea for sure. id be interested to see how the accountability chain would work for that...

a 250 hour wonder just doesnt strike me as having much to go on, other than yes, he/she learned the things needed to pass the exam... which ANY pilot will tell you, is NOT all there is to learn about flying.

i hated arrogant CFI's like bigrig who thought they knew everything just because they passed a CFI exam.


((and again, im sure mr bigrig has NEVER criticized the President of the United States, since bigrig has NOT been president, and so is not qualified to speak on any political matters. right? RIGHT?))

[SteveC]