UND CFI's cant land.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by jhugz

This is absolutely pitiful. Pilot pushing at it's finest.

Are they self-examining?

If so they should be stripped of 141 (or at least self-examining) until things change around there.

I smell a bunch of 709 rides.

141 certification expires in 10 days.
UND has examining authority.
7 CFI's and 1 student are up for 709 rides. So we were told.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by av8or91

141 certification expires in 10 days.

Hopefully they don't get it back.

Originally Posted by av8or91

UND has examining authority.

Christ, at least they scored the college loop-hole in the bill.

Self-Examining Authority is a joke. AF's basically advertises it as a no stress check-ride when I did my -II that way. DE's are there for a reason and should be used. I don't have a problem w/ 141 but I do when it has self-examining authority.

Originally Posted by av8or91

7 CFI's and 1 student are up for 709 rides. So we were told.

As they should be.

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by jhugz

Hopefully they don't get it back.

Self-Examining Authority is a joke. AF's basically advertises it as a no stress check-ride when I did my -II that way. DE's are there for a reason and should be used. I don't have a problem w/ 141 but I do when it has self-examining authority.



As they should be.

Why do you hope they dont get 141 certification back?

Also I think if you ask anybody that went there, the check rides at UND were far from no stress.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by BIGRIG

Why do you hope they dont get 141 certification back?

Also I think if you ask anybody that went there, the check rides at UND were far from no stress.

I hope they don't get back the self-examining on the 141 is what I meant to say.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by jhugz

I hope they don't get back the self-examining on the 141 is what I meant to say.

the only thing harder than your average und stage check is a cfi ride with an FAA de

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by Blip16

the only thing harder than your average und stage check is a cfi ride with an FAA de

Yeah I can tell, that's why every 141 flight school crashes 7 airplanes per month.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by jhugz

Yeah I can tell, that's why every 141 flight school crashes 7 airplanes per month.

lol

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by av8or91

141 certification expires in 10 days.
UND has examining authority.
7 CFI's and 1 student are up for 709 rides. So we were told.

Wasn't their examining authority up for grabs a couple of years ago? At least that's what I believe I heard back when the Air Chinas were being rushed through finishing their Private course / checkride.

[ml_wd]

Originally Posted by jhugz

Yeah I can tell, that's why every 141 flight school crashes 7 airplanes per month.

What flight school do you work at?

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by ml_wd

What flight school do you work at?

Why does that matter?

[FlyMan07]

Originally Posted by jhugz

I hope they don't get back the self-examining on the 141 is what I meant to say.

UND better be praying that they keep the self-examining authority. If they don't, I see the Air China pass rates falling below 10%, and more like 5% if the DE's are anal about reading/understanding English.

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by FlyMan07

UND better be praying that they keep the self-examining authority. If they don't, I see the Air China pass rates falling below 10%, and more like 5% if the DE's are anal about reading/understanding English.

I doubt that will change anything. I have seen DE's pass kids in FL that don't speak any English at all. As long as they get enough money thrown at them, they don't care how much english someone speaks.

[JulietBravo]

Originally Posted by BIGRIG

I doubt that will change anything. I have seen DE's pass kids in FL that don't speak any English at all. As long as they get enough money thrown at them, they don't care how much english someone speaks.

Then wouldn't you think they would pink them and have the pay up for a 2nd ride??

I have heard of some DPE's passing students on a thin margin just because they know these students will stay within a 141 program. If it was done 61, the DPE would fail them. Now, that is just f'd up! Not sure if this is UND's mentality, but I will let people who actually attended there come up with their own opinion.

[Nigel Croker]

Originally Posted by HeimerPilot

But which is worse, a 250 hour instructor, or a 250 hour regional FO? Gotta build hours somewhere.

This will shock you, I think the 250 hr CFI is. At least the 250 Regional FO has to pass an advanced airline training program ( ie Airline indoc, which is tougher than any FAA test ), and there IS an experianced Captain there. A 250 CFI ( if he has bad habits) will instill those into his students, and anyone heard of PRIMACY, that'll stay with that aviator for life. That said, I'm sure there are GOOD 250 CFI's just like there are GOOD 250 FO's, although the latter are a thing of the past I think..

[Roger, Roger]

Originally Posted by jhugz

Self-Examining Authority is a joke. AF's basically advertises it as a no stress check-ride when I did my -II that way. DE's are there for a reason and should be used. I don't have a problem w/ 141 but I do when it has self-examining authority.

All the final self-examining stage checks I had students go through in my time CFI-ing were orders of magnitude more difficult than comparable FAA rides.

YMMV.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by Nigel Croker

This will shock you, I think the 250 hr CFI is. At least the 250 Regional FO has to pass an advanced airline training program ( ie Airline indoc, which is tougher than any FAA test ), and there IS an experianced Captain there. A 250 CFI ( if he has bad habits) will instill those into his students, and anyone heard of PRIMACY, that'll stay with that aviator for life. That said, I'm sure there are GOOD 250 CFI's just like there are GOOD 250 FO's, although the latter are a thing of the past I think..

I have never been through 121 training but from what I got off people on this board is that CFI training, studying, and check-ride is harder then the 121 aspect.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

All the final self-examining stage checks I had students go through in my time CFI-ing were orders of magnitude more difficult than comparable FAA rides.

YMMV.

There has to be a problem somewhere in there training to have 7 accidents in 1 month. These problems should have at the very least be caught at the check-ride phase. If they are part 141 then it should be caught at every single stage check. It's pilot pushing at its finest.

[Nigel Croker]

Originally Posted by jhugz

I have never been through 121 training but from what I got off people on this board is that CFI training, studying, and check-ride is harder then the 121 aspect.

Actually It often seems that way because by the time you get to 121 you've been through it all a time or two....
I do think the point I'm trying to convey after seeing both sides is this.
You have awesome 300Hr instructors
You have horrible 300Hr instructors
there were very good 300 Hour Fo's
and you had very marginal 300 Hr Fo's

Checkrides, vary by instructor, FSDO, DPE and many other variables, case in point I was told once that Inst. was the hardest rating, yet my instrument Checkride was a non event, the DPE never said anything but good job you pass ( I'm sure I was well prepared). My commercial checkride was the most intense I ever had (I still passed) but a heck of a checkride story though, and it was the same DPE (go figure). So in the grand scheme of things there is no arbitrary number of hours or types of ratings you hold, there simply is:

1 person and their determination to be the best they can be. Their willingness to never settle at "this is good enough", and their level of maturity toward aviation, and you will never define this with a number of hours or a certain type of training, experiance, or rating...

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by jhugz

There has to be a problem somewhere in there training to have 7 accidents in 1 month. These problems should have at the very least be caught at the check-ride phase. If they are part 141 then it should be caught at every single stage check. It's pilot pushing at its finest.

I think most of those were done by student pilots, all excetp the gear up. I am not 100% certain on that, but if that is true, no checkride to...check them.

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by Douglas

I think most of those were done by student pilots, all excetp the gear up. I am not 100% certain on that, but if that is true, no checkride to...check them.

No, but there are stage 1 checks, and if they are paper pushing stage 1 checks then I wonder what else they are doing.

[ProudPilot]

I know this will scare you but I'm now a Stage Check pilot as I guess a few were pulled down. This does make us a bit overstaffed in the stage check pilot area, but the goal is to get students to move through fast.

I know part of the reason is I'm a huge pain in managements side some days. I have no problem sending students home, unsat on a regular flight, and reworking manuals to make them more digestible and safe (as in taking problems to management and not taking "we'll get to that later" as an answer). It probably doesn't hurt I have a high pass rate and only God knows how many 102's I've helped through a stage (honestly teaching... not skimping).

However, knowing the other people that were in that training I know they also butt heads and honestly believe in quality. I've had a few debriefs where I would have unsat my own student and the stage pilot simply said "They can learn it later." That crap pisses me off. The point is to know it now... for this and EVERY FLIGHT THEREAFTER.

Yes, there are problems here, yes they are systemic, and yes they got bad. They can be fixed... but if any of you want 1000 hr CFI's... then START PAYING THEM MORE THAN $25,000 a year! Otherwise make sure pilots have a way to get from A to B and get knowledge.

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by JulietBravo

Then wouldn't you think they would pink them and have the pay up for a 2nd ride??

They are expensive enough as it is. If a guy gets a reputation for failing people, then he will most likely not get calls from the CFI's to do their students checkrides.

[TwinsFanPilot]

At sierra academy of aeronautics. The DE's get $400 per checkride and $200 per retest. Linda the main DE does 2 checks a day and sometimes a recheck. She was booked for weeks out at a time. $4500 a week average. Over $200,000 and she would just pass the students even if they did not meet PTS. Pay DE's like this and all chinese pass the tests.

[CATIV]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

whoa what? we shouldnt have 250hr CFI's teaching new students???

i still fail to understand how we (collectively as an industry) think its a great idea for some wet-ink pilot's first job to be TEACHING to someone else.

I see some1 is bitter they dint get hired as a CFI...YET get their CFI in first place

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by CATIV

I see some1 is bitter they dint get hired as a CFI...YET get their CFI in first place

english please?

if you ever read ANYTHING i posted, youd know i dont have my CFI, dont WANT to CFI, and CERTAINLY not sad about not working for UND.

reading comprehension fail.