UND CFI's cant land.

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

an interesting idea for sure. id be interested to see how the accountability chain would work for that...

a 250 hour wonder just doesnt strike me as having much to go on, other than yes, he/she learned the things needed to pass the exam... which ANY pilot will tell you, is NOT all there is to learn about flying.

i hated arrogant CFI's like bigrig who thought they knew everything just because they passed a CFI exam.


((and again, im sure mr bigrig has NEVER criticized the President of the United States, since bigrig has NOT been president, and so is not qualified to speak on any political matters. right? RIGHT?))

I never said that I know everything. There was/is a lot that I still have to learn. In fact I learn stuff everyday. But, none of my students ever bent an aircraft and I started instructing with 250 hrs under my belt.

[juxtapilot]

What is going on at UND that's causing all these accidents and incidents? There seems to be an above average number of cases this year.

[LOGS]

I havn't read through this thread after the first couple posts but I already know who's doing this. Not the CFI's but the chinese students. From my own experience flying with the crap air china/wonton etc etc sends over here for over 1000 hours, I know that having these students in a place as bad as ND for flying is a huge mistake. UND really needs to use a sat. school like Preston where the weather is better and the scheduling doesn't conflit with the normal flight students. All UND is doing right now is getting a bad rep.

=Jason-

[LOGS]

Also on the 250 hr CFI subject. When I was at UND training and instructing, I always felt many new CFI's end up driving many 102 students away. I think they would have a much lower dropout rate if the experienced CFI's taught 102. The initals would be better suited with the 221/323 students IMHO.

=Jason-

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by LOGS

I havn't read through this thread after the first couple posts but I already know who's doing this. Not the CFI's but the chinese students. From my own experience flying with the crap air china/wonton etc etc sends over here for over 1000 hours, I know that having these students in a place as bad as ND for flying is a huge mistake. UND really needs to use a sat. school like Preston where the weather is better and the scheduling doesn't conflit with the normal flight students. All UND is doing right now is getting a bad rep.

=Jason-

Yea, I have a feeling it could be the China students but I'm not sure. What I don't understand is what makes UND so different that they have so many more issues than other schools. There are lots of flight schools training international students who are doing just fine and avoiding incidents.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Yea, I have a feeling it could be the China students

Ding Ding Ding. But they are people too and anyone can fly...right?

[nutz4life]

UND must be wishing they had kept with the Warriors, can't seem to break those unless your being stupid. But no, just had to have fancy fancy upgraded glass cockpit with skylights.

[rd757]

What do the UND students not understand that a 172 is not a Warrior. The wings are ABOVE you. Stop trying to make it a low wing on landing! Also... remember the high CG (as I stated in another UND crash thread) with the 172... doesn't take corners as well as a Warrior (my guess). Take it slower and you won't "lose directional control on landing!" Come one guys, it's really not THAT hard.

RD

[ORDFlyer85]

Here's what I have Heard from a fellow friend and CFI as to why all this is going on ...

** I am not a UND CFI so I am only telling what he told me **

Apparently, back at the instructor orientation meetings prior to school starting, a person (no names) one of the Standerdization instructors was talking about the obscene amount of tail strikes that were being caused in the C172. SO ..... apparently what some of the lead instructors or someone started tell their instructors to do was to change the way the students were landing and to land with minimal flare so as not to cause tail strikes.

So what instructors started to do was teach their students to do was point the nose to the numbers and keep pointing the nose their right until they were ready to flare. So what began to happen is that students were landing on the nose wheel instead of the main gear and by the time they flared........ too late they already landed on the front gear and crumpled the very little area of firewall that there already was.

True it has been a bigger problem with the Air China students then anyone else, but it was triggered by instructors improperly teaching their students to land so they decided to re check all of the instructors since it was to be a wide spread problem.

So to me i don't think we can blame it on CFI's or students, obviously its an issue that UND needs to address .... they always change policies or what not and so it's a learning expereince.

Like I said that's what I was told, maybe one of the CFI's on here could either confirm thats what they heard or not but it is what it is ....

[FlyMan07]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Yea, I have a feeling it could be the China students but I'm not sure. What I don't understand is what makes UND so different that they have so many more issues than other schools. There are lots of flight schools training international students who are doing just fine and avoiding incidents.

It's because UND tries to rush the Chinese kids through. They only look at the short-term money side of things, and don't understand that if you spend the time/money in 102 teaching them (keep in mind most of these kids have never even driven a car/tractor and therefore don't have the motor skills of a typical undergrad student) how to fly properly they won't crash airplanes in 221, which ends up being more costly in the long run. I can't imagine how UND's insurance rates are going to go up after this rash of incidents, which is also going to increase undergrad costs.

The weather in ND sucks, the contract students don't get to fly as much as they are supposed to, and don't make their ridiculous templates, and are rushed through. This not only punishes the students in their training, but also UND by decreasing overall safety. Not good.

I completely agree that UND needs a satellite to train contract students at. It would be a better deal for the undergrads and contract students.

[Roger, Roger]

Originally Posted by ORDFlyer85

Here's what I have Heard from a fellow friend and CFI as to why all this is going on ...

** I am not a UND CFI so I am only telling what he told me **

Apparently, back at the instructor orientation meetings prior to school starting, a person (no names) one of the Standerdization instructors was talking about the obscene amount of tail strikes that were being caused in the C172. SO ..... apparently what some of the lead instructors or someone started tell their instructors to do was to change the way the students were landing and to land with minimal flare so as not to cause tail strikes.

If that is true, that standardization instructor needs to be pimp-slapped. That is all.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by ORDFlyer85

Here's what I have Heard from a fellow friend and CFI as to why all this is going on ...

** I am not a UND CFI so I am only telling what he told me **

Apparently, back at the instructor orientation meetings prior to school starting, a person (no names) one of the Standerdization instructors was talking about the obscene amount of tail strikes that were being caused in the C172. SO ..... apparently what some of the lead instructors or someone started tell their instructors to do was to change the way the students were landing and to land with minimal flare so as not to cause tail strikes.

So what instructors started to do was teach their students to do was point the nose to the numbers and keep pointing the nose their right until they were ready to flare. So what began to happen is that students were landing on the nose wheel instead of the main gear and by the time they flared........ too late they already landed on the front gear and crumpled the very little area of firewall that there already was.

BS ALERT. No one said to land with minimal flare although flying the airplane toward a specified point (aiming point) is standard practice. People are striking props and hitting the nose gear because they are crossing the threshold at mach 1 and trying to land within a specified distance on the runway. Or they are just trying to salvage a bad landing.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by av8or91

because they are crossing the threshold at mach 1

you know who ELSE likes to cross the threshold at mach 1...




(ok, just under it ;-) )

[av8or91]

New update, it looks like TXaviator is right, a CFI cant even land with his student because one of the accidents was with a CFI on board.

[Roger, Roger]

Originally Posted by av8or91

New update, it looks like TXaviator is right, a CFI cant even land with his student because one of the accidents was with a CFI on board.

Meh. Stuff happens. UND flies enough airplanes enough hours that sooner or later something was bound to happen. Doesn't necessarily indicate a program-wide weakness of the CFI cadre.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

Meh. Stuff happens. UND flies enough airplanes enough hours that sooner or later something was bound to happen. Doesn't necessarily indicate a program-wide weakness of the CFI cadre.

average of 10,000hrs/month!

[nutz4life]

Might want to add in addition to the title of this thread including the words ... and at times forget to put the gear down...

[FlyMan07]

It appears there has been another incident/accident as UND has suspended all flight training until further notice. Yikes.

[TXaviator]

has the cold finally frozen the last brain cells to death up there or WHAT?

[DhruvK]

SEMI gear up landed. All flight training suspended in lieu of CFI landing standardization flying.

[rd757]

Insurance is going to bend UND over the table for this.

[AngelFuree]

Oooooooooh, this is some good stuff. What's happening over there.......? whoa.

[Roger, Roger]

Ooooops.

[FlyingOfficer]

All flight ops including Ryan Hall suspended until noon tomorrow.

PS - The Seminole gear was successfully cycled back in the MX hangar...

[jhugz]

This is absolutely pitiful. Pilot pushing at it's finest.

Are they self-examining?

If so they should be stripped of 141 (or at least self-examining) until things change around there.

I smell a bunch of 709 rides.