UND Contract Student Injured in C172 Solo Crash at PKD

[FlyMan07]

Was waiting for the Grand Forks Herald to pick it up...

"UND student slightly injured after plane accident"

http://www.grandforksherald.com/even...cle/id/133350/

[nutz4life]

I knew some type of accident was bound to happen with those students, either sooner or later. I wonder how much further UND is going to have to baby sit these students. I heard for the new incoming China students, they are not allowed to solo until their last block of training in 102, almost before their final stage check. On top of that, when they take their written tests they are not allowed to hold the offical copy in their hands but instead those guys who give out the tests keep them and send them to the airport as if they are afraid they will lose the tests and I guess they did in the past. Finally I also heard from my instructor they are required to do some type of training event 6 days a week, even if its not a scheduled lesson per the TCO, just to keep their knowledge up to date so they dont forget which I guess happens often.

On an unrelated note since babysitting was brought up in my post:
About UND babysitting, it also goes for everyone else to on various topics like SOFs and weather, and the retarded clothing requirements for winter. Its common sense to wear a coat when its less than 32 out, and if the student doesnt, well its their loss. UND is not MOM!

[TXaviator]

can you post the text so we dont have to log into the stupid newspaper site to read it?

[TXaviator]

from the dakota student

Student injured in Park Rapids Plane Crash

All Air China contract flying has been suspended until further notice.

Michael Thomas

Issue date: 9/11/09 Section: News

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Li Yang, an Air China student pilot, walked away from a "totaled" UND Cessna 172 aircraft that impacted the ground shortly after takeoff around 10 p.m. Saturday night, according to Jeff Voigt, owner of Park Rapids Aviation.

Yang's aircraft crashed approximately 100-150 feet off the end of the runway. He was treated for his injuries and later released from a Park Rapids hospital, according to a UND issued press release. He was flown back to Grand Forks and is reportedly doing well.

Dana Siewert, director of Aviation Safety said the aircraft had suffered "substantial damage" though he was not able to give any additional information.

Voigt stated that the landing gear on the front of the aircraft had been ripped out, the engine was still inside of the cowling but it too had been severed and twisted and much of the inside of the cockpit area had been crushed in.

"There's no question that the [aircraft] is totaled," Voigt said.

As for the pilot, Voigt commented, "There was also a lot of blood inside of the aircraft. Both the left and right door posts and the fuel selector had blood on them."

Yang was, however, able to walk away from the accident. In fact, he walked from the wreckage site back to the Park Rapids Aviation office, nearly a mile away in order to call the authorities to let them know what happened.

"I wasn't there, but I got a phone call from Lockheed Martin Flight Service because he was apparently late in closing his flight plan or something and they also reported an ELT (emergency locator transmitter) signal," Voigt said. "Then I got a call from the pilot himself."

When flying a cross-country flight, students are obligated to file a flight plan with Lockheed Martin Flight Service. The company tracks the progress of each aircraft in the air and will begin searching for that aircraft if it is more than 30 minutes past the scheduled arrival time. According to Voigt, local air traffic control also picked up on the ELT signal, which is designed to begin signaling a distress call in the event of a high impact crash.

Voigt said the pilot had suffered mostly facial cuts and bruises from the accident. "His face was all bloody," he said. "He must have hit his head on the dashboard or the windshield, which was also pretty damaged."

Voigt mentioned that Yang was "pretty shaken up" and that authorities had a hard time understanding him because "his English wasn't very good."

The Federal Aviation Administration conducted an on-site investigation Sunday morning and afternoon and released the aircraft to the university to be examined. Voigt said the National Transportation Safety Board, the organization that typically investigates aircraft accidents, would not be doing any on-site investigations but he was not sure if they would be involved later or not.

UND Aerospace has suspended all Air China flights until a the school can figure out what happened, according to Lead Flight Instructor Justin Phillips. "The concern is overall safety," he said. "With that group of students [the Air China group] their management is concerned about their safety as well, and, as a part of our procedures, we do anything we can to keep anything like this from happening again."

Phillips was unsure of when the Air China students would be allowed to fly again.

Voigt has been working at the airport for 10 years and he said this was by far the worst accident he's ever seen. He noted that another UND aircraft hit a deer on the runway several years ago, but that "it doesn't compare to this."

[TXaviator]

heres METARS near time of accident:

KPKD 130553Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM BKN100 17/16 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP215 T01670156 10228   20167 402500156 53001
KPKD 130453Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM OVC080 19/16 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP212 T01940161
KPKD 130353Z AUTO 02005KT 10SM OVC070 19/16 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP213 T01940161
KPKD 130253Z AUTO 23006KT 10SM OVC070 18/16 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP216 T01830161 53007
KPKD 130153Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 19/16 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP214 T01890156
KPKD 130053Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 20/16 A3015 RMK AO2 SLP207 T02000156 

[Kestrel452]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

heres METARS near time of accident:

KPKD 130553Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM BKN100 17/16 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP215 T01670156 10228   20167 402500156 53001
KPKD 130453Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM OVC080 19/16 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP212 T01940161
KPKD 130353Z AUTO 02005KT 10SM OVC070 19/16 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP213 T01940161
KPKD 130253Z AUTO 23006KT 10SM OVC070 18/16 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP216 T01830161 53007
KPKD 130153Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 19/16 A3016 RMK AO2 SLP214 T01890156
KPKD 130053Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 20/16 A3015 RMK AO2 SLP207 T02000156 

hmm, light winds, ceiling 7000' above the ground, doesnt sound like a bad day to me.

This whole thing is very ironic because I am sitting here eating chinese food. of all the days i choose to get it, its when a chinese guy crashes.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Kestrel452

hmm, light winds, ceiling 7000' above the ground, doesnt sound like a bad day to me.

This whole thing is very ironic because I am sitting here eating chinese food. of all the days i choose to get it, its when a chinese guy crashes.

mmm derricious!

[AngelFuree]

"Accident waiting to happen" was definitely right. I feel bad for saying this, but it was only a matter of when, not if. Having instructed some of those guys, I can honestly say I'm not surprised. That being said, I hope the guy recovers well.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

"Accident waiting to happen" was definitely right. I feel bad for saying this, but it was only a matter of when, not if. Having instructed some of those guys, I can honestly say I'm not surprised. That being said, I hope the guy recovers well.

exactly. im glad the kid is okay. hopefully this is a wakeup call for some people who were pretending that adding more and more regulations would somehow make things safer.

in another thread someone mentioned "sure theres lots of idiots, thats why theres rules"

how about "lets get rid of the idiots"

some people aren't cut out for flying. just like not everyone has what it takes to drive a race car at 200mph... or paint a masterpiece... or compose the great american novel.

i REFUSE the notion that "you can train anyone to fly a plane safely"

no, you can't.

[nutz4life]

In a way im glad its an accident involving other than approach to landing. Had it been landing, UND would have been stressing the stabalized approach criteria again and quiet honestly Im sick and tired of it, not saying its a bad thing, just saying we all shouldnt have to be subjected to it; it gets annoying especially when you know how to land and know what to look for.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

exactly. im glad the kid is okay.

Hey now, he may have not been a kid. I instructed a 40-something year old Tokai student.

hopefully this is a wakeup call for some people who were pretending that adding more and more regulations would somehow make things safer.

I think it's a wakeup call for the school to not relax standards with these guys. Instructors get pressured to get these guys done on time. No, nobody should give in to pressure. Yes, we all know that. As such, it's the job of the stage check pilots to ensure the guys REALLY meet the standards. Don't pass a stage 26 just because the contract student is behind. The next freakin' lesson is a solo x-country, be responsible. Some of those guys had no business being signed off for those stage checks yet they still were signed off. (Anyway, this is another topic.)

i REFUSE the notion that "you can train anyone to fly a plane safely"

no, you can't.

Very true, just like some people don't belong behind the steering wheel of a car.

[CRJDriver]

I can't believe these guys will go back to their home country and then fly Boeing and Airbus planes.

[AngelFuree]

Yup, then they come back and fly into JFK as Air China 981.

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Very true, just like some people don't belong behind the steering wheel of a car.

*cough*

women

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

*cough*

women

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

[Katabat1c_SEA]

Good to hear he was alright. Though UND needs to see that flight training can't be rushed for them. Some of these guys are coming here barely having driven a car and are now asked to fly an airplane.

[ProudPilot]

We shall know more tomorrow, but there is the real possibility that they had a true emergency that went bad. There are a lot of trees in that area and 100-150 yards off the departure end sound about right. Granted, there are training flaws and many of us work very hard to make our students the best they can be.

However, their is a cultural difference. Ours is based on individual opinions and decision making. Their culture is on procedures and memorization. Sometimes it takes more than a year to break habit. They still get the job done, and safely. Remember it was an American student a few years ago that nearly got himself killed when he flew when tired. Air China students are tuition paying students that pay for quite a bit of what we have at UND Aerospace and on campus. They aren't just here for the flying, they are here for the experience.

We do need to slow down a bit and realize that it's not just the hours, it is the mentality and work on better ADM. Please realize though, someone got hurt. Have a little respect for the fact that they did crash, but walked away from it. It's not a great landing, but it is a good one.

[PLANECOOK]

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

Yup, then they come back and fly into JFK as Air China 981.

Pretty crazy.... I went to school with a kid who it took 140hr to get his private full time, and then 8 months later and 350hr later he went home to be a second officer on a A330. That is crazy!!

[Scandinavian13]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

On top of that, when they take their written tests they are not allowed to hold the offical copy in their hands but instead those guys who give out the tests keep them and send them to the airport as if they are afraid they will lose the tests and I guess they did in the past.

Where I'm at, we keep their logbooks with the medicals inside of them in the flight ops building. Apparently too many students washed their medicals by forgetting to take them out of their shirt pockets. Part of my job description became, unofficially, librarian...super pleased about that. So now, if there's a fire or flood, we don't just have one ruined record, we have 200+ ruined records of logs and medicals alone. Most of the time, I don't understand the rationale behind decisions here (probably because there isn't one), so I've just given up on trying.

Originally Posted by TXaviator

[VIDEO]

That one part where the guy gets out and parks the car for the lady is priceless.

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by Scandinavian13

That one part where the guy gets out and parks the car for the lady is priceless.

[FlyMan07]

Originally Posted by Dakota Student

...authorities had a hard time understanding him because "his English wasn't very good."...

Originally Posted by FARs

Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language

FAIL

Originally Posted by AngelFuree

"Accident waiting to happen" was definitely right. I feel bad for saying this, but it was only a matter of when, not if. Having instructed some of those guys, I can honestly say I'm not surprised. That being said, I hope the guy recovers well.

[FlyingOfficer]

Originally Posted by Park Rapids Enterprise

A university-owned Cessna sits off the runway at the Park Rapids Municipal Airport after a crash Saturday evening. The pilot received minor injuries. To the right are tracks from the plane's bumpy journey off the runway. (Sarah Smith/Enterprise)

[TXaviator]

good picture! hard to tell if those tracks were from him coming back down, or if he never got off the ground in the first place....

[mokulele]

Scary. Well, it was only a matter of time, I suppose.

I'm glad the student is okay, but I'd really hate to be that student's flight instructor right about now. I wonder how UND will work this one out this time...