UND...

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by Blip16

final check is just "flaps ____"

It is now, it wasn't when I was going through.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by Screaming_Emu

It is now, it wasn't when I was going through.

right, i used to say "gear welded" too

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Blip16

final check is just "flaps ____"

when I was there the blessed phraseology was
Flaps ______ degrees
mixture rich
prop high RPM
gear down and locked


the cadets did have dummy handles, the katanas might have too, I don't recall. To their credit I'll probably never gear up an airplane, 100 grand for that little piece of mind.


threadstarter is right, wasting a ton of cash on UND isn't worth it... from a graduate. (02)

[airplanerik]

Pilots love complaining. End of story.

[Kestrel452]

Originally Posted by GUNIT

Kestrel,

you keep throwing the good ole' black and gold out there. You're not in the flight program yet, correct? I suggest you withhold judgment until you have actually experienced it. No different than UND

No i'm not in it but i know a lot of guys that are. I think after having been a school for a couple years someone can make an educated judgement. And I do take flight courses through Purdue, so dont be so quick to discount me.

If you think Purdue's flight dept is similar to UND's you are sadly mistaken.

[GUNIT]

To the contrary, not mistaken at all Kestrel. Used to be in Purdue's program myself and got out. Everything that the OP had to say I could echo in Purdue. You may take flight courses but you do not flight train with Purdue yet as you are not in the program/minor and you haven't had to deal with Hangar 6. I don't mean to come across as hostile in any way, I would just caution you greatly to experience it before speaking your mind.

[Avalon781ML]

I will say only this...

I received a good education from UND.
I have looked back since graduating and realize there was a drastic change in both training mentality and instructor quality for the worse midway through my training.
I am not angry/sore with UND but I will never recommend it to another person unless someone were to show me that a drastic change had again occurred.
I think the goal of training aviators has been overshadowed by politics.


Sidenote: I never understood the purpose of buying a jet and then having to sell it a year later.... how can the university instill a sense of responsibility in the cockpit and classroom when these "educated" people can't correctly manage finances. I am probably way off base as I have been displaced from GFK for some time now.

As for checklist usage... although I think they do serve a purpose I think a good percentage of "professional" pilots don't refer/use them as UND taught us to.... I don't think it makes someone any less safe.... but I guess that would then make me dangerous right?

As for the flaps 10 issue... if you can fly an airplane exactly two/three knots slower at all times then NASA is calling your number... simple rule of thumb that has kept me alive whilst doing weather mod, flying 50' off the ground, and doing a little ag work..... don't be a dumbass, a hero, or a retard and you won't kill yourself... personally I think for a student to perform a flaps 10 takeoff in a 172 is ridiculous and marginally unsafe... but thats my opinion.

Anywho... have a great day y'all... be safe.... and have some fun!

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Philip

when I was there the blessed phraseology was
Flaps ______ degrees
mixture rich
prop high RPM
gear down and locked

thing is, even something so simple as this is NOT always correct!!

mixture full rich is CERTAINLY not correct when approaching an airport at high density altitude!! ask anyone who flies in colorado, new mexico, utah, etc etc etc....

nice recipe to at BEST, foul your plugs every day, and at worst, end up in a situation where you are not at optimum power where you really, really wish you had it!!

teach the pilot the WHY behind the process, not just how to read a list.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

teach the pilot the WHY behind the process, not just how to read a list.

there is something i can agree with you on

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

thing is, even something so simple as this is NOT always correct!!

mixture full rich is CERTAINLY not correct when approaching an airport at high density altitude!! ask anyone who flies in colorado, new mexico, utah, etc etc etc....

nice recipe to at BEST, foul your plugs every day, and at worst, end up in a situation where you are not at optimum power where you really, really wish you had it!!

teach the pilot the WHY behind the process, not just how to read a list.

Originally Posted by Blip16

there is something i can agree with you on

Oh GOD, me too........I must be sick.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by BIGRIG

Oh GOD, me too........I must be sick.

ding ding ding, i think you guys are finally seeing my underlying gripe. teaching lists vs teaching solid foundations and mechanics of how and why things are the way they are.

never said checklists are worthless, but teaching a pilot to 'pass the tests' and 'how to read the list' is much like teaching inner city schoolkids just enough to pass whatever standardized test is in fashion that year.

not implying that either one of you do that, im saying that on the whole, i found there to be a shift toward that kind of mentality, when the contract students arrived.

word!

[Philip]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

thing is, even something so simple as this is NOT always correct!!

mixture full rich is CERTAINLY not correct when approaching an airport at high density altitude!! ask anyone who flies in colorado, new mexico, utah, etc etc etc....

nice recipe to at BEST, foul your plugs every day, and at worst, end up in a situation where you are not at optimum power where you really, really wish you had it!!

teach the pilot the WHY behind the process, not just how to read a list.

Erm, look at my location and then tell me I don't know that.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

ding ding ding, i think you guys are finally seeing my underlying gripe. teaching lists vs teaching solid foundations and mechanics of how and why things are the way they are.

never said checklists are worthless, but teaching a pilot to 'pass the tests' and 'how to read the list' is much like teaching inner city schoolkids just enough to pass whatever standardized test is in fashion that year.

not implying that either one of you do that, im saying that on the whole, i found there to be a shift toward that kind of mentality, when the contract students arrived.

word!

which i have seen. i have never taught that way, and i don't. but i still need to focus on checklists(as they are important, and should be in the cockpit and USED)
I have always taught practically, sure some of my students take longer because they are not used to not being spoon fed, but that is what it takes to be a competent pilot

[Menn80]

In looking at the 172SP POH I found that for a normal take off it states to have flaps up or 10 degrees, 10 degrees preferred. I have flown all different models of 172's and was kind of confused on why Cessna would all of the sudden say 10 degrees now but not on the older aircraft. I did only find this in the G1000 POH as I have not flown one and had to look it up. Is there any reason why UND would require 10 degrees on all takeoffs now. I have had a bad experience with 10 degrees on a light weight takeoff during a windy day. Any light on this would be great.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by Menn80

In looking at the 172SP POH I found that for a normal take off it states to have flaps up or 10 degrees, 10 degrees preferred. I have flown all different models of 172's and was kind of confused on why Cessna would all of the sudden say 10 degrees now but not on the older aircraft. I did only find this in the G1000 POH as I have not flown one and had to look it up. Is there any reason why UND would require 10 degrees on all takeoffs now. I have had a bad experience with 10 degrees on a light weight takeoff during a windy day. Any light on this would be great.

its a typo/copy-paste error from the G1000 182 manual, according to a pilot who picked one up and brought it to the attention of cessna.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

its a typo/copy-paste error from the G1000 182 manual, according to a pilot who picked one up and brought it to the attention of cessna.

but why at the factory when you pick up a 172 do they recommend the 10 degrees?

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by Blip16

but why at the factory when you pick up a 172 do they recommend the 10 degrees?

If you end up picking up another plane, please do ask them. I am curious how a G1000 (Nav III) changes the aircraft so much that 10 degrees is "preferred" for takeoff.

So when you get your 10-15 knot Xwinds are you using flaps for takeoff? I surely would not.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

If you end up picking up another plane, please do ask them. I am curious how a G1000 (Nav III) changes the aircraft so much that 10 degrees is "preferred" for takeoff.

So when you get your 10-15 knot Xwinds are you using flaps for takeoff? I surely would not.

no, i don't because i have common sense

[HVYMETALDRVR]

Fair enough SCREAMING EMU, when were u at UND?

And with all due respect to other commenters its hard to give opinions about a school you haven't flown at... I don't know much about Purdue so I won't say much about the program other than that I've heard good things...

But as for the specifics of their program...

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by HVYMETALDRVR

Fair enough SCREAMING EMU, when were u at UND?

Fall 2002-Dec 2006