UND...

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

the best thing is nowdays I actually DO fly a C172 with a HUD.

EAT THAT, UND.

oh, and there's no checklist. OH NOES!

Hey, some cars have HUDs too!

[Doug Taylor]

In general, when we welcome a new user to JC and they end one of their first few posts with "Flame Away", it's generally similar to not only speeding past a policeman, you're speeding past a policeman and honking the horn.

[BillErvin]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

In general, when we welcome a new user to JC and they end one of their first few posts with "Flame Away", it's generally similar to not only speeding past a policeman, you're speeding past a policeman and honking the horn.

Had a local butthead do that too me, plus he waved. His Radar detector wasn't working, so he didn't think I knew how fast he was going (50 in a 35).

I sure had a good time writing that ticket. Memories

[roundout]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

the best thing is nowdays I actually DO fly a C172 with a HUD.

EAT THAT, UND.

oh, and there's no checklist. OH NOES!

safety director FAIL

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by roundout

safety director FAIL

huh? fail at what?

[nutz4life]

Someone want to describe why UND standards wants all C172s to takeoff with 10 degrees of flaps whether it be a normal, short, or soft takeoff? Are they really trying to simulate a BIG airlplane with the AIRLINE feel to it on lift off?

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

Someone want to describe why UND standards wants all C172s to takeoff with 10 degrees of flaps whether it be a normal, short, or soft takeoff? Are they really trying to simulate a BIG airlplane with the AIRLINE feel to it on lift off?

Probably to comply with the recommendations in the C172's new POH.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

Someone want to describe why UND standards wants all C172s to takeoff with 10 degrees of flaps whether it be a normal, short, or soft takeoff? Are they really trying to simulate a BIG airlplane with the AIRLINE feel to it on lift off?

um, read your POH before you make a remark that makes you look like a dumbass.......oh, wait, too late

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

Someone want to describe why UND standards wants all C172s to takeoff with 10 degrees of flaps whether it be a normal, short, or soft takeoff? Are they really trying to simulate a BIG airlplane with the AIRLINE feel to it on lift off?

Oh you've got to be kidding me!

[ORDFlyer85]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

Someone want to describe why UND standards wants all C172s to takeoff with 10 degrees of flaps whether it be a normal, short, or soft takeoff? Are they really trying to simulate a BIG airlplane with the AIRLINE feel to it on lift off?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but isn't the only reason that Cessna is "recommending" 10 degrees of flaps for takeoff is for better climb performance and it reduces the stall speed about 3-4 knots ... again I might be wrong as I haven't seen a new C172 POH and haven't flown one in our fleet as of yet. I know when I began my training a couple years ago in a C172 we didn't use flaps for normal takeoffs. Maybe Cessna feels that the added stability is an extra benefit....

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by roundout

safety director FAIL

still waiting for your reply there chief. what exactly is a fail?

a c172 doesn't require any sort of checklist to operate.

are you saying i and my company are unsafe by operating 172's without a checklist?

please clarify.

cite examples, if able. thanks!

[ProudPilot]

Well the FAA does state that to operate an aircraft, you need to comply with any published documents concerning its operation. The POH or PIM being the primary thing. So the Cessna POH has a checklist in there that it states you should use. FAA says must use.

So we went ahead and copied the POH, added a few items, and got plastic covers for it. Then, oh no, the POH now states to use 10 deg flaps for all takeoffs. Well, we don't truly care, but the FAA and insurance does. So is it really that hard to takeoff with one notch of flaps and take them out with a positive rate? Nope, still good training, lower insurance premimums, and at least after a crash after takeoff we were following the POH. Maybe there's a chance it won't say Pilot Error in the summary.

If you think that not following the POH or teaching that it's a recommendation, that's really not going to get you terribly far. Go try to fly on a contract and tell the owner that you only use some parts of the POH. See who they will hire.

[roundout]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

still waiting for your reply there chief. what exactly is a fail?

a c172 doesn't require any sort of checklist to operate.

are you saying i and my company are unsafe by operating 172's without a checklist?

please clarify.

cite examples, if able. thanks!

CHill, dude. It was a joke.

[nutz4life]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

um, read your POH before you make a remark that makes you look like a dumbass.......oh, wait, too late

Don't have a Cessna POH, just heard a buddy tell me that.
BTW, you making that kind of remark in the end and you are a CFI...doesn't sound to be professional, I suggest you read the instructor handbook for a refresher

[jynxyjoe]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

Don't have a Cessna POH, just heard a buddy tell me that.
BTW, you making that kind of remark in the end and you are a CFI...doesn't sound to be professional, I suggest you read the instructor handbook for a refresher

I read a few instructor handbooks. Doesn't say anything about being polite to guys on the internet. I'm sure if you give him $20-$30 an hour his volcab will improve dramatically.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by nutz4life

Don't have a Cessna POH, just heard a buddy tell me that.
BTW, you making that kind of remark in the end and you are a CFI...doesn't sound to be professional, I suggest you read the instructor handbook for a refresher

Welll did you consider checking the facts before you posted?

And I am sure I have those books many more times than you, I am sick of people bitching about the way und does things. If you are getting a commercial cert at und, think about this: most companies have specific ways to do things, and you do it their way. When I went through the program there was much less standardization, was it better? Debatable, do I agree 100% with the way to do things now, no; but it is how it is done now so I do it the way they want it done. Some day I am sure most students at und want to fly something big and turbine powered, those companies are not going to let you do whateber you want to fly those planes, so get used to it, it is how it is done in this industry

[Thunder-Robo]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

Welll did you consider checking the facts before you posted?

And I am sure I have those books many more times than you, I am sick of people bitching about the way und does things. If you are getting a commercial cert at und, think about this: most companies have specific ways to do things, and you do it their way. When I went through the program there was much less standardization, was it better? Debatable, do I agree 100% with the way to do things now, no; but it is how it is done now so I do it the way they want it done. Some day I am sure most students at und want to fly something big and turbine powered, those companies are not going to let you do whateber you want to fly those planes, so get used to it, it is how it is done in this industry

To be fair, he didn't specify which model C172.... although UND only have S'....
But you pretty much summed up the rest.

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

um, read your POH before you make a remark that makes you look like a dumbass.......oh, wait, too late

Hey smartguy. The 10 deg. flaps thing is apparently a typo in the POH. Discussed in the "flaps" thread in main forum.

Just thought I'd give you the heads up so you're not disseminating inaccurate information.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

Hey smartguy. The 10 deg. flaps thing is apparently a typo in the POH. Discussed in the "flaps" thread in main forum.

Just thought I'd give you the heads up so you're not disseminating inaccurate information.

WEEEEELLLLLL;

when i picked up a 172 at the factory, that is what they said to use for takeoff.....

[mokulele]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

still waiting for your reply there chief. what exactly is a fail?

a c172 doesn't require any sort of checklist to operate.

are you saying i and my company are unsafe by operating 172's without a checklist?

please clarify.

cite examples, if able. thanks!

Hmm. That is a very interesting statement, given the Practical Test Standards for EVERY type of airman certificate specifically mentions the use of checklists.

Perhaps on your next checkride you can tell the examiner you don't need to use your checklist...

This is the sort of lack of cockpit discipline the FAA is wanting to crack down on.

[AngelFuree]

Originally Posted by mokulele

This is the sort of lack of cockpit discipline the FAA is wanting to crack down on.

Yes, time to report this internet user's violation to the local FSDO.

[BIGRIG]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

still waiting for your reply there chief. what exactly is a fail?

a c172 doesn't require any sort of checklist to operate.

are you saying i and my company are unsafe by operating 172's without a checklist?

please clarify.

cite examples, if able. thanks!

Are you for real? I was under the impression that the POH is supposed to be followed. Do you not agree with that? Where did you get the impression that YOU AND YOUR COMPANY do not have to follow it?

[TXaviator]

Originally Posted by BIGRIG

Are you for real? I was under the impression that the POH is supposed to be followed. Do you not agree with that? Where did you get the impression that YOU AND YOUR COMPANY do not have to follow it?

We do not operate contrary to procedures, placards, limitations, etc that are set forth in the POH.

Putting words in my mouth! Whoa!

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by TXaviator

We do not operate contrary to procedures, placards, limitations, etc that are set forth in the POH.

Putting words in my mouth! Whoa!

but yet you are too good to operate w/o a checklist? I could understand operating a Champ w/o a checklist(because there isnt one), but not anything else

[TXaviator]

if you are interested on other professional aviators thoughts on checklists, I encourage you to read these articles by John Deakin


http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182037-1.html

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182038-1.html

if youre interested to know who else shares my opinion on this matter, he is a 35,000 hour pilot and a designated pilot examiner, and can give types on 43 aircraft. maybe you can dismiss my opinion, but I'd like to see you really dismiss his.