Why won't I get a call back?

well back to the original question, I would say you will get the call back eventually. My best advice is relax and don't be to desperate. They will call at some point. Just relax and keep sending out the resumes and making the phone calls. that being said you may just be a tool and nobody wants ya!!! JK man

thanks for all the advice, now I'm getting more call backs then I know what to do with... I have an interview with CommutAir on the 23rd I've been wanting that for a while now...

Nah, in general you're right. I don't know anyone at horizon, but I don't know anyone that broke 20k the first year at several other airlines. Most were 16-18k. 9k for my great lakes buddy.

This part of the thread might be already done. But after flight instructing, I did aerial survey for a year flying 172s all over the country. Made 83,000. Could have broke 100k had I not taken a 2 month vacation. The downside, hotel living for 7 months straight(minimum), 10 months is what I did. BUT, if you have any debt what-so-ever, this is a great way to knock a lot of it out. Most will say seniority is everything. I disagree, getting your finances in check while you're in your 20s is better. So pay and timing are more important. You're not going to pay off debt or get any money saved while you're furloughed now are you?

Now I'm doing part 135 freight in a 210 and Baron and will net around 52k doing this. Most freight companies will start you around 30k/year.

From a financial standpoint, the regionals make zero sense.

So I ask this, do you HAVE to fly for the regionals, and why? I remember my thinking when I was 24(which was only 2 years ago LOL), and with me it was completely an ego thing. That being said, I want their stretches of time off BAD! It just doesn't fit my financial goals at the moment though.

I'm not trying to sound like "my path is better than your path", but I'm just curious if you've looked at the numerous other opportunities out there in aviation? I didn't at first and scoffed at the idea of doing any flying other than 121 for most of my flying career.

Before I never wanted to be an airline pilot, ( I wanted to be a fright dog).. but after doing my research on diffrent aviation choices I decided that airlins would best fit my needs...

I don't want to see you ever take a $20k regional job.

I have a friend over there. He has been there 8 years and is not even close to upgrade last time I talked to him. Is it looking any better now?

Have no intentions of ever doing so. I can't support my family on that salary. Also, while I agree that paying your dues is beneficial, a career that requires over a thousand hours of flight time, tens to hundreds of thousands in investment and a degree in many cases, 20k starting salary is simply unacceptable. I can't think of any other career that allows management to use time on the job as compensation as much as the piloting profession. Pilots exacerbate the problem by treating regionals as stepping stones instead of an airline job deserve of fair compensation from day one. It is a job, not an apprenticeship, a job that the company is making money on the backs of underpaid and over worked pilots.

So what do you recommend for us pilot that are becoming airline pilots?

It is whatever you find acceptable. If you are willing to accept 20k as a starting salary in exchange for a sub par quality of life in beat up hotels all because it is a "stepping stone" to a golden ticket at a major that's fine. Just do so with the knowledge that it is because regionals offer 20k salaries that majors find it beneficial to outsource flying to them. Majors, American currently and most before them, talk about wage concessions, health benefit reductions, scoping out more flying to regionals, decreasing the number of major jobs and pushing pilots to the maximum and sometimes beyond. They would love nothing more to be an airline in name only and have regionals do all the flying. New pilots need to remember that when they are taking a "stepping stone" job, it could very easily turn into a lifetime job, where you are stuck fighting for higher wages from the low regional level.

Personally, if I every was to get in the game, not likely at this point, I simply wouldnt apply to companies that I thought were being exceedingly slimey with first year pay. I'd rather work at Home Depot making minimum wage knowing I am a minimum wage worker vs. working for a regional making 20k, below minimum wage when you factor all time spend on the job not just flight time, and have a college degree and specialized training.

Flying is cool, but being able to support your family is better, it is just a job.

Yes it's horrible but I can't think of any other job where you get an automatic 36% pay raise on your first year anniversary. Also, what other job requires additional training where the company has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to train you after you're hired? Starting first year regional pay should be about $50k in my opinion but we won't see that any time soon.

Hotels are awesome by the way, Hilton, Wyndham, Hyatt, Marriott, etc. The pay does suck but it's more like $26k and QOL was great for me on reserve before I got the boot.

I flew with a lot of captains who are "stuck" making $105k working less than half the month. Does that really sound so bad to you? I guess it is terrible if you could be making 200k at a major but it's quiet nice if you compare it to a nonflying job. It's not easy to make six figures outside of aviation, nor is it that easy in aviation either these days.

No offense, but I hardly call a 36% raise a benefit when you start out making poverty level wages. That benefit should be there form day 1. If they want you to be a professional, they should treat you as a professional.

Many jobs require additional training, most even pay for it. My company specifically, and many others will pay for your masters as wall as any professional development or conferences that will increase my ability to make them money. This is a benefit to you, but should be in addition to a livable wage, not in place of.

Ok, so your airline put you up in nice hotels, they dont all though. And that is who you are competing against, when it comes times for the major to renegotiate your contract, they will look for concessions, which will be taken out of you somehow.

I hope you are not counting per diem in that 26k either, that doesn't count. It is money to reimburse you for expenses of being on the road and all other expenses related to being a pilot.

It is not hard to make six figures either. And as Doug says, 100k sounds like a ton of money, but it doesn't buy you a mansion with a Porsche. It buys you a reasonably comfortable life, maybe a new Jetta and a nice 3 bed 2 bath with a yard house depending where you live. That is great and nothing to complain about, but don't justify the terrible pay early on with the 100k later. If you have a kid or two, 100k will squeak you by, atleast in the North East.

Look I dont want to argue about the benefits of being a pilot. Being a pilot is cool, you have a great office, you get to do something you love and generally speaking, you can leave your work at work. However, it seems many pilots let the love of flying blind them to the fact that management will screw you at any turn. They don't care about you, your family or your future. They care about one thing, profits, it is what keeps them employed and they care about #1. Some managers are worse than others obviously, some even seem to have a shred of compassion for the working class, but most will fire you in an instant if it means hitting their next quarterly projections. You don't matter to them, only investors matter. You can be replaced.

They will do just enough to keep you coming to work. They know there are 100 applicants waiting to take your job, making less to fly more. Which is the whole problem. Which goes back to my original statement, pilots are their own worst enemies. Major pilots are fighting to keep scope, fighting to get pay and benefits back to even a fraction of what they once were. Regional pilots are scraping and clawing for more pay and more flying, which hurts the Majors pilots struggle. Then every year there is a crop of new pilots fresh from universities and pilot mills, laden with 65-150k in debt willing to work for less than McDonald wages because being a pilot is cool, it's always been their dream and worst of all...I need the hours to get to the majors.

I am going to allow Bruce Hornsby to explain my reply to you in song

I would love to get on with commutair, unfortunately I applied right as they raised the mins. I'm 650TT 100ME, but I love instructing so I'll gladly continue this path for a while longer.

Ok, total hijack but who the heck pays 83,000 for aerial survey in a 172? I and a few others on this board have done that and last time I checked it didn't pay anywhere near that.....

Air America Flight Center. You have to get a little lucky and work quite a bit. At least 90 hours a month. 7 months would net you around 50k if you didn't have any stretches of sitting around not doing anything. I did 10 months with one month at over 200 hours. My average was around 130 hours a month. That was about 10k for that month. That's gross by the way, not net, and with private contractor taxes, that takes off a big chunk. Minimum pay per month, not doing anything but sitting in the hotel was 5100.

when is the hiring season for survey?? Are the mins usually 500tt or do they take mostly 1000TT??

If you have C206/7 and 400 series time I know where you can make good money flying part time throughout the year. I hear they are always looking for more pilots. The flying is a little boring for my taste but the money is pretty good IMO.

what part of the country and what's pretty good?

$180\day. No ground work. 8 hour limit. $50/day per diem. ALL (I mean every) expense paid.