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Tailwheel endorsement

Discussion in 'CFI Corner' started by empire, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. empire

    empire Well-Known Member

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    If a student is signed off to solo in a tailwheel aircraft, and then takes/passes his checkride in a nosewheel aircraft, does he need an additional tailwheel endorsement to fly tailwheel with his private pilot license? I'm assuming not, but wondering if anyone has experience with this.
     
  2. Roger, Roger

    Roger, Roger Guest

    Did he get a tailwheel endorsement when you soloed him in the taildragger? If so, I would think he's good to go. If not, he should have.
     
  3. mshunter

    mshunter Well-Known Member

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    Once endorsed, always endorsed unless the endorsement has an expiration(for whatever reason that may be).
     
  4. nosehair

    nosehair Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the endorsement.
    The 61.87(n)(1)&(2) solo endorsements are aircraft specific, and the 61.31 tailwheel endorsement requires wheel landings which the 61.87 solo does not, so the wording and logged training would need to reflect both those aspects. Best to just make the two separate endorsements, since that may be an actual difference.
    Are you endorsing "private pilot operations" in all tailwheel aircraft when you authorize a student to solo in one?
     
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  5. empire

    empire Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's not my student, yet, so I'm not sure what type of endorsements have been given. I'll find out more when the time comes.
     
  6. Roger, Roger

    Roger, Roger Guest

    You got it.
     
  7. crfguy51

    crfguy51 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't a student pilot exempt from the actual tailwheel endorsement? Like you wouldn't have to endorse them tailwheel proficient until the check ride?
     
  8. escapepilot

    escapepilot Well-Known Member

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    I had an instructor chastise me for giving a tailwheel endorsement to a student. I asked a few DEs about it and the consensus was that in order to act as PIC (and solo) in a tailwheel aircraft, the student would have to have the 61.31 (i) tailwheel endorsement. One DE said he would not do a checkride in a tailwheel aircraft unless the canidate had the endorsement. Note that the 61.31 (i) endorsement only states that no person may act as PIC of a tailwheel aircraft without it. It does not grant any other privildges.
     
  9. Mike H

    Mike H Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I would do the solo endorsement for the specific airplane, and also do a tailwheel endorsement separately. Also, the OP mentioned that the student took & passed the checkride in a nosewheel airplane, he's also going to need a specific endorsement for that airplane as well.
     
  10. Roger, Roger

    Roger, Roger Guest

    I don't see that anywhere in the regulation. 61.31(i) is pretty clear:
    I suppose that it's possible there is a LOI out there addressing this, but unless someone could show me it I'd say that the student pilot does indeed need the Tailwheel endorsement prior to solo.
     
  11. mshunter

    mshunter Well-Known Member

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    Ask that instructor how well thats going to go over when said student ground loops a Citabria at a towered airport and takes out some of the airport lighting(just enough to get the feds involved). I haven't been doing this flying thing for a very long time. But I like to think I know may ass from a hole in the ground.
     
  12. mshunter

    mshunter Well-Known Member

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    Don't you hate it when people make you become a regulation Nazi.................
     
  13. banjo

    banjo Well-Known Member

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    How about this. Student soloed in a Super Cub. Instructor signed the back of his medical. Takes checkride in Super Cub. Does he still need a tailwheel endorsement? Examiner told me no. Same as if he took checkride in C182, no hp endorsment needed?
     
  14. USMCmech

    USMCmech Well-Known Member

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    He needs the endorsement to solo.

    If you are soloing a student pilot in an aircraft that requires any endorsements (HP, TW, complex, ect.) they have to have those before even taking the checkride.
     
  15. banjo

    banjo Well-Known Member

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    So your saying to solo he needs student pilot endorsed and a tail wheel endorsement also?
     
  16. Corporate Pilot

    Corporate Pilot Well-Known Member

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    That is the way I read it. If you are flying solo in a tailwheel aircraft you are acting as PIC in it.

    (i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:
    (i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;
    (ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings); and
    (iii) Go-around procedures.
    (2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (i)(1) of this section is not required if the person logged pilot-in-command time in a tailwheel airplane before April 15, 1991.
     
  17. USMCmech

    USMCmech Well-Known Member

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    I've soloed a few students in the Citabria, they got the normal solo endorsement and TW endorsement.

    If your student is soloing a 182, he needs the normal solo endorsement plus HP.

    If he is soloing an Arrow, he needs the normal solo endorsement plus Complex.

    If he is soloing in a T-6 Texan (we can only dream), he needs the normal solo endorsement plus HP, TW and complex.
     
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  18. banjo

    banjo Well-Known Member

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    Good copy. Wonder where my examiner gets the idea all he needs is his student pilot certificate endorsed.
     
  19. WS

    WS Well-Known Member

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    That part about, "no person may act as pilot in command of a..." pretty much says it all. If the student is soloing, they must be the PIC, so they need the endorsement. Also, on a check-ride with a DPE, the student is the PIC during the flight, so they would need whatever endorsements are applicable to the HP, Complex, or T/W, so the examiner is obviously correct that they shouldn't allow the flight to happen unless the student has that endorsement.
     
  20. TwoTwoLeft

    TwoTwoLeft o- - - - - - -l

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    The initial solo endorsement is for MAKE and MODEL. If the student completes and logs the requirements of 61.87(c&d) and is endorsed as such by their authorized instructor in a Tailwheel aircraft, the 61.31(i) endorsement is not needed.

    The reason why it's not needed is because all the training required to solo, by nature, is make and model specific and the make and model endorsements on the student pilot certificate never expire. Same goes for all 61.31(e-k) although a few might not be very realistic for a student pilot.....

    Edited to include 61.87(c&d)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2015

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