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Stall warning horn inop....

Discussion in 'CFI Corner' started by Douglas, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Douglas

    Douglas Old School KSUX

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    Okay dudes, I need your advice ASAP.

    I am flying a C-172 tomorrow, with an inop stall warning horn.

    Today a fellow CFI terminated a flight early today because the stall warning horn was not working.

    While I was out there today we went back and forth whether or not the airplane was airworthy.

    I think it is Airworthy, via 91.213 (here is the link http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.7&idno=14 )

    by the same reg, the other CFI says it is un-airworthy.

    The part won't be in until tomorrow at 10 a.m. and to add to that the mechanics are saying it can't fly because it doesn't have a working aural working stall warning device. Which to that I said, "I am pretty sure that I've flown pipers that didn't have aural stall warning devices, only a light."

    I can see how I can be wrong about 91.213, so what is the verdict?
  2. Berkut

    Berkut Well-Known Member

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    The stall warning is required for certification. It's unairworthy.
  3. tgrayson

    tgrayson New Member

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    Which version of C172? If you look in the equipment list, you'll see a "-R" on the stall warning horn, meaning that it's required.
  4. Cessna414JJB

    Cessna414JJB Unknown Member

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    Previously grounded as non airworthy by another CFI?
    Dump.

    Did not look at the reg, but other CFI + Mechanic will be two people testifying against you if you blow a tire on roll out on a simulated power failure to an absolutely safe runway. Introduce a prop strike or or any other bent stuff and you're due.
  5. Mabgibai

    Mabgibai Well-Known Member

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    The plane is un-airworthy. You'll see it listed under required equipment in the weight & balance section of the poh. I pulled the closet poh to me to make sure it was in there before I posted.
  6. Douglas

    Douglas Old School KSUX

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    Romeo model.

    We pulled the POH and it does have "-R" by it.
    "-R" means required for Certification.

    So my thought is, what is the purpose of 91.213 (d) if this is not a case of pull it and placard it?

    If this doesn't work there, what does?
  7. tgrayson

    tgrayson New Member

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    Not necessarily:

    § 23.207 Stall warning.

    (a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall warning, with the flaps and landing gear in any normal position, in straight and turning flight.
    (b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give clearly distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight. However, a visual stall warning device that requires the attention of the crew within the cockpit is not acceptable by itself.
    (c) During the stall tests required by §23.201(b) and §23.203(a)(1), the stall warning must begin at a speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin of not less than 5 knots and must continue until the stall occurs.
    (d) When following procedures furnished in accordance with §23.1585, the stall warning must not occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a takeoff continued with one engine inoperative, or during an approach to landing.
    (e) During the stall tests required by §23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must begin sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall to be averted by pilot action taken after the stall warning first occurs.
    (f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial stall warning may be mutable, provided that it is armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed automatically in the approach configuration.
  8. tgrayson

    tgrayson New Member

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    ADF, Radio, VSI, etc.
  9. Douglas

    Douglas Old School KSUX

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    Sounds like I need to change my tune.

    Thanks guys.
  10. Berkut

    Berkut Well-Known Member

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    I know it's not necessarily required for aircraft in general, but it's part of the type certification for the 172R.
  11. ppragman

    ppragman Slow Plane, Fast Plane

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    DAMN! You beat me to it.

    BTW, how do you know if the horn is inop? (other than the suck test)
  12. c172captain

    c172captain Well-Known Member

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    Step 2 :yar:

    Attached Files:

  13. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

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    Don't some stilll have the little metal tab you can press up and the horn goes off?
  14. beechpilot

    beechpilot Well-Known Member

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    Yes many do. Our Beechcraft trainers(Sports and a Sierra) all have a metal tab. I make it part of my preflight routine to turn the battery on and check the switch to make sure it's working properly.
  15. tgrayson

    tgrayson New Member

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    Only if the horn is electric.
  16. ppragman

    ppragman Slow Plane, Fast Plane

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    The sled has that, though ours get placarded every now and then.
  17. Douglas

    Douglas Old School KSUX

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    That is what I always thought.

    I always thought you could placard this.
  18. ppragman

    ppragman Slow Plane, Fast Plane

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    Ours also have a circuit breaker, which some pilots pull to keep from alarming pax.
  19. Cessna414JJB

    Cessna414JJB Unknown Member

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    As I said, hand the emergency manual with your finger on the red flag over to the passenger on the first seat behind you, and yell:

    "YOU NEED TO READ THIS TO ME, POINT BY POINT, I DON'T HAVE MY GLASSES!! DON'T SKIP A WORD OR WE ARE IN DEEP MOOSEPOOP!!"

    Make sure you are in the "ENGINE FIRE IN FLIGHT" section...
    You won't hear the stall warning yourself over all the screaming. :D
  20. subpilot

    subpilot Squawking 7600

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    :yup: That there is some funny stuff. I don't care who you are. :yup:

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