Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no vfr

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

I don't know, but don't most airline OpSpecs state that for a visual the operator must adhere to the 91.155 cloud clearance requirements?

I know that the 135 operator I fly for has to maintain the seperation.

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

This is according to our Ops Specs:

b. Terminal arrival IFR - Visual approach or a Charted Visual Flight Procedure (CVFP).
The flightcrew may accept a visual approach or a CVFP provided all the following conditions exist.
The flightcrew may not accept a visual approach or a CVFP unless the limitations and provisions of
subparagraph f. of this operations specification are met.
(1) The flight is operated and remains in Class B, C, or D airspace, within 35 miles of the
destination airport in Class E airspace, or the airspace beneath the designated transition area.
(2) The flight is under the control of an Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility.
(3) The flightcrew must maintain the basic cloud clearance as specified in Section 91.155.

So in this manner, the Fed was correct...assuming he could actually prove that the aircraft was less than 500ft below the clouds.

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

Repoing up from FLL-PBI, we got a traffic alert on a "VFR" target. Lo and behold, some aerobatic job (extra, maybe?) pops out of the broken layer half a mile off, banking left and right, etc. It took all of my "don't narc" willpower not to ask them if someone from the friendly FSDO wanted to have a little BFR with Captain Fun.

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

1/2 mile? Guns or missiles?

Not knowing all the facts, none of us can draw a conclusion (without seeing out the window and knowing the op specs).

But for purposes of argument, if I am 400' below a cloud and get cleared for the visual, what am I supposed to do? Say unable and request vectors back for an ILS? When it is the only cloud in the sky?

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

Thanks DB. Even a old dog learns something new around here. Did not know (or forgot?) about that.

That part about op specs i quoted is important too! Being part 91, doesn't apply to me, but 121/135 it may be different for you.

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

Still a good call to remind those who have maybe "mis-remembered" it. Always learnin' and relearnin' some things.

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

Bourbon bottles at two paces. The proviso is they start full, but you can't shatter/throw/gouge with them till they're empty.

We all always are, ain't one of us that knows everything.

Just remember that before we go all sky police on anyone, they may not be operating under the same rules/might have a waiver/you might be the one that is wrong.

Had exactly of those conversations in the air with some who has 10x the hours I do. "That ain't legal.". "well, 121 it ain't, but we are 91...."

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

What I witnessed yesterday: I was level 10,000 on an IFR flight plan maybe 200 feet below the clouds (VFR weather mins being 1,000 below and above 1 mile horiz. if one wanted to use 10.5) and an airplane came off an airport (not giving details) about 10 mile from my position and checked in with center requesting VFR flight following at 10.5 (keep in mind that I am less than 10 miles from him popping in and out of the scud underneath the overcast layer, not VFR--99% VMC, but not VFR). No less than 5 minutes later he gives a PIREP reporting severe turb. at 10.5 with a momentary loss of control. It was windy yesterday, so he could have encountered some wind shear, but somehow I think there is more to the story...I don't see how he was VMC let alone VFR, we were in the same general area. Oh well, that's his business I suppose, atleast he was talking to center so seperation wasn't a factor. Why he didn't just go VFR at 8500 well below the clouds (he was flying a route that I have done no less than 50 times-terrain was not a factor) is beyond me....

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

Been there done that and didn't have TCAS...We broke out and had a freaking ultra light right in front of us. I pulled up so hard it wasn't funny and went missed then called center. I also filed a NASA report. Center vectored us for the appoach again and the plan was gone and didn't land there. Unfortunately, them following up on an incident like this is slim to non with so little information.

Bobdduck, would have been interesting if it caused a TA or RA. I still like the time I had some wise arse try and lecture me for landing straight in on an ILS, and how I should have canceled and flown a proper pattern.... ummm apparently cleared for the approach doesn't mean anything to him....

Re: Some dummy taking off vfr and picking up an ifr. Only no

Lol that's rich.