Question for aeronautical graduates

I am seriously considering getting a degree in aviation from Riddle. Is it worth it? If you could go back in time and do it again, would you go get a bachelors degree in something else and then do your ratings on the side, or just go to riddle?

Put it this way. Regardless of what you hear from everyone, you get out of it the amount of work you put into it. Some kids walk out of Riddle expecting a job, I didn't. I knew as I went through the industry was taking a dump, and it was going to be tough.

For that reason, I hurried through my ratings and CFIs and was hired as a CFI there for 4/6 semesters (Instrument - MEI in 11 months and graduated 2 semesters early). Instructing my butt off as much as I could, coupled with Flight Team and 18 credit hours a semester, I was BUSY. But I managed to graduate with 850 hours or so and about 90 multi.

Still without a job after I got out.

But interesting things happen...like "special offers" if you want to call them that. I had 2 experiences at Riddle that I'm happy I didn't sit on the couch and blow off.

1. Dispatcher Certificate Program - I took all of the same classes I would for my Aero Sci degree and just after I graduated, I took my Dispatcher checkride. Now being 21 I couldn't earn the certificate, but the FAA sends a letter which you turn in at 23 and they issue you your certificate. It only cost me $300 for the ride and $120 for the written and it's my #1 back pocket job choice if I lose my medical.

2. Cape Air Gateway Program - they were interviewing in Fall 2009 and I figured what the heck, I don't have anything to lose. I interviewed, got in, but there were no First Officer classes this summer after I graduated. So THEY GOT ME A JOB on the ramp for the summer, and now I've got an October class date as a First Officer.

It was because of my own go-getting and positive attitude that got me that job. Had I sat on the couch and not researched anything, I wouldn't be in that class.

So like I said, a lot of guys will bash it. I had good and bad experiences there. Are there things I'd like to change? Oh yeah. But everyone's different and your experiences may vary. Any questions, lemme know.

i just graduated erau in june. in my opinion if i could do it again, i would start at a community college the first 2 years and get my private, instrument, and maybe commercial if i had a lot of time left. Save riddle for last and then you get all the benefits for way less money. you need to make sure your credits will transfer prior to taking them because riddle can be pretty picky on those. riddle is a good school and great name to have on your side, well respected in the community, but no one cares where you start training, just where you finished, or been recently I would say. So save money, do it the smart way and if you are going to pay for riddle which isnt cheap, in my opinion you might as well get what you're really paying for and learn to fly there. otherwise just fly at an FBO or something. hope that helps

It really is better NOT to get an aviation degree. Get something general or something you can use if you're not able to find a flying job as soon as you'd like. With aviation you always need plan B.

i respectfully disagree ^

Ok, what would you recommend and why do you disagree?

Like I said it all depends on what you want. If you really really want to fly then get your degree doing so. You can try double majoring (which is very very hard and will most likely take more than 4 years) or just minor in something else you are interested in. If you are only interested in flying for your personal use then ya, i wouldn't even bother flying at erau, go get it cheaper across the ramp. Moral of the story is you got to tailor it to you. I was for sure I wanted to be a pilot above all things and i am confident that with my training done at riddle and my degree based in aeronautical science that i will be way more valuable to an employer than someone who may fly but was an engineer or whatever. sometimes corporate guys like you to have the a&p mechanics as well just so you will no how to fix there plane if something goes wrong, but mainly if you are a devoted pilot stick to that and if something goes wrong, ya have a back up plan, but hey, you can deal with that when and if it happens. not to sound snobby about it but i am proud that the statistic goes out of every 4 pilots in the airlines 1 is from a military background, 1 is from anywhere else, and the other 2 came from riddle. that means 50% so i do reccomend the school and do reccomend if you are serious about flying to go all or nothing at riddle. i find a lot of employers today seem to worry that if you are getting a job not in your degree or career field you went to college for that you are settling to work for them and will likely leave as soon as something better (in your field) comes along. this makes it a lot harder for you to get hired as a pilot i believe. like i said as far as back up plans go, that is what minors are for and there's always dispatch which at riddle is just one additional class and a checkride. hope that helps and i didnt ramble on too much

Man do you have alot to learn. First I can tell you right now 50% of airline pilots or proffesional pilots in general are NOT Riddle grads. Secondly no employer really cares where you got your license. All they care is how many hours you have and in what. Third if you think that having a aviation degree is useful at all your really living in dream land. The aviation degree is as about as useful as the paper its printed on.

To the OP. Do what you think is right for you. But remember that aviation is tough career and has more downs than probaly most jobs. You will want a degree that can be used to get another job during the hard times or if you ever loose your medical.

EDIT: Heres a really good idea. Take the money you have saved from going to Riddle and use it to get extra ratings. Glider Seaplane etc. Employers will look much more favorably upon that then they will where you went to school.

wait.. you mean that if i graduate embry riddle with a 100k piece of paper, i am NOT owed or guranteed a job?!?!?!?!

disagree again respectfully^^^ maybe i do have a lotto learn, but that is my experience. PS. keep an open mind and don't hate, just because I didn't do it the same way you did. Once again, not bragging, but I have never gone to an interview where they weren't impressed I went to Embry Riddle and got my degree in aviation there. Can you say the same about Podunk part 61 airport from nowheresville, state? nah, didn't think so, cuz no one's heard of that. Riddle has a good reputation for a reason, good reputations come from good training. ya its expensive and has it's downfalls just like anything, but hey, it's not for everyone and to each there own. Don't hate what you most likely (i am assuming) dont know and dont have experience with, especially on an ERAU forum. hope this doesn't affect our friendships.

also, you are never really guaranteed a job anywhere, and from what I hear if you are you should definitely beware, especially in aviation where company's come and go all the time. just saying having the extra "ammo" of riddle grad and flight trained helps. don't believe me, then i challenge you to a field test. Go out to any place with pilots and ask around to see how many came from riddle. i think you will find that a good number of places, especially large ones you will find a number of riddle grads. i don't find this coincidence, do you?

OK, I couldnt find the 4 pilot's thing because that is just one of those things they tell you as you tour the campus, so it may be accurate or it may be rumor/lies whatever, but these facts and statistics are the truth...


http://www.erau.edu/db/degrees/b-aerosci.html

More Professional Pilots Have Come From Embry-Riddle
Than From Any Other University


http://www.erau.edu/career/statistics/index.html

Statistics

http://www.erau.edu/career/prospective_students/aeronautical_science.html

with a degree

http://www.erau.edu/er/newsmedia/factsandfigures.html

Placement Statistics

Opportunities for work experience through co-ops and internships abound, with 337 students awarded positions during the 2008-2009 academic year. For the Class of 2005, 95% of Embry-Riddle graduates overall are either employed or have continued their education within one year of graduation. Embry-Riddle’s 94,000 alumni are employed worldwide in the aviation and aerospace industry as well as in business, law, engineering, medical, insurance, and other businesses and government organizations. Alumni and their companies offer mentoring, hiring, and networking opportunities to alumni.

I dont hate. I was trying to help someone make a educated decision. I'll tell you right now an employer will be more impressed with a few extra ratings (glider, seaplane) than if you went to riddle. Flying part 61 has it advantages over Riddle. You can use your Riddle background all you want to try and get a job, but I will just have one of the many captains I have ment flying part 61 walk my resume right to the front of the line and put it in the cheif pilots hands. Guartee I will get the job quicker than you that way. Networking not where you went to school will get you the good jobs. Riddle does have good programs to help there graduating seniors find work I dont dispute that. But paying more than twice what it costs to get your ratings through riddle than a part 61 FBO in my opinion is insane. Because once you have that first job no where cares where you went to school they just look at your work history. This isnt a attack on you I'm just trying to help someone make a good decision and save them some money. Trust me you would rather start off in the aviation industry with zero debt by paying as you go through part 61 rather than come out close to 100k in debt going to riddle. The only part 141 school I support and think is worth while for some people is ATP since its only 90 days and cost half of what Riddle does. Just my opinion though. You free to disagree with me thats fine it doesnt affect my feelings towards you. Just putting some information out there for the OP to think about.

But how about if I don't have any debt? What if I have already collected enough money to get me through without having any debt.. is it still worth it?

And gymhaus, thank you for taking all this time to post on this thread.. I appreciate your feedback and I too was wondering, if people say ERAU is so bad then why is it still in business?
I calculated the costs of going to Riddle OR going to a university and getting a Degree in Business Administration.

Embry Riddle : 213,200

Flight School: $50,000 - $60,000
College: +$120,000 - $160,000
__________________
$170,000 - $220,000


Honestly, I have researched, and can't think of one job I would like to do than fly. So if I am not going to do anything else, why not go Collegiate Aviation style?

Where you going to school that costs 40K a year? Most, if not all public state schools aren't anywhere near that, more like half of that.

When I was flying for the airlines many of the people I flew with didn't even have a degree, let alone a degree from Embry-Riddle. I would not suggest paying the amount of money that's required to go to Riddle. I would never pay that much money for college unless I was getting a degree from an Ivy League university. Now, an employer might be impressed with a degree from Harvard or Yale, but I doubt they'll raise their eybrows at another Riddle graduate.

5 years ago I graduated with a History degree from a large state school in Ohio that most of you have never heard of. 4 years of school cost me less than the price of one year at Embry Riddle. Then I went to Ari-Ben and paid a grand total of 35,000 for all my ratings post PPL. I was hired at Colgan a year and half after starting at Ari Ben.

Maybe you guys have rich parents that will pay for all your school. If so have at it. Otherwise save yourself the heartache of being in debt for the next 30 years. Pay as little as possible and for god's sake get a degree in something other than Aviation. I'll go a step further and say get a degree in something that has a professional license attached to it. (IE my History degree was fun, but now unless I want to go to law school it's pretty useless).

This article says it all to me


http://www.erau.edu/er/newsmedia/newsreleases/1997/conrec.html

Tribute to Embry-Riddle University

Mr. FORD. Mr. President, Time Magazine once referred to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University as The Harvard of the Sky, a designation truly honoring both institutions. I say this because unsurpassed standards, values and public contributions constantly are reflected in achievements by those representing both schools.




Like it says, If you are comparing it to Ivy league school then yes, it has been called "the harvard of the sky" many times and i believe is rightfully termed.



Ok, so first, I agree with you and respect you all giving your opinions because in order for one to make an educated decission on what to do he should see both sides of the argument. That being said, I dont feel like someone saying that " have a lot to learn" is helping him decide and take it more like you think my opinion is simply incorrect or you think i dont know what i am talking about. which is why i made the comment not to hate, but then maybe i am wrong and jumping to conclusions who knows. anyways in the interest of not bickering and changing topics on the forum lets get back to the question at hand.



My best advice is when you come around to deciding which college to go to, go to the campus, take a tour and ask some students about there experience. make sure you tell them keep it about the academics because you will find a lot of people complaining about the cost or the lack of women. thats all part of going to a college for engineering and aviation i guess. if you focus on the academics and flight training i think you will find they are second to none.



as for the price, yes, there is no getting around that it is an expensive school. also, i think 40k is a reasonable assement for how much an average school would cost today, especially a private school and at this level. also, im not sure how you calculated your total but if it is just tuition then dont forget you will be adding an additional 10k semesterly on average to fly. flying is not cheap and neither is a good school. i think you will be in debt either way even with part 61. and dont worry, the rumors arent all true, i am not some rich stuck up kid, but rather a lower middle class kid raised by a single parent. I do have a lot of money in loans and i knew that going into the school i would leave with a lot of debt. that said, just like in business it takes money to get money. if you are willing to pay for arguably the best, then you are going to recieve the best in my opinion. everyone isarguing that getting a degree in aviation is a bad thing, but in reality, not getting a degree is whats really bad. at erau you will take business, history, english, physics, math, humanities, psychology, etc. this is a valuable tool that enlightens you to know more and be more valuable to any employer. look at the statistics, people with college degrees statiscally make more hands down in every poll. once again, not coincidence. if it is money you worry about, then ya i reccommend getting your core classes at a community college your first 2 years and graduating from erau your final 2-3 years. also there is athletic scholarships, grants, scholarships in general, ROTC, SGA, financial aidand millions of other ways that if you really work at you can actually make money going to college. i worked with a girl that went to school there and flew and was being paid $300+ on top of free living expenses because sher applied and got the bill gates scholarship. also knew a girl that was ae that got a full ride and stipend monthly from air force rotc. basically man, if you know what you want to do, dont let any bs excuse like money or debt get in your way. those are the negative ideas that keep you from being all you want to be and can be.



finally, i do believe it is possible to achieve any goal through any means. therefore i believe you could potentially get any job you want, either going to riddle or not. its all a matter of right place right time and yes as my friend here said...NETWORKING! networking is so key to success in aviation and to keep it brief, what the heck do you think going to a college full of aeronautical engineers and pilots does for four years! I mean duh! I know a ton of people in the industry, still in school, and in the same situation i am in at having a first job out of college. seriously, what could be better than going to a school where pretty much everyone knows everybody or at least has seen your face around with 5000 students on campus yearly, and while some of your friends graduate, youmake new ones every year on top of that with the incoming freshman class. i have helped many people find jobs and many people have helped me through school buddies and you are doing great by being on here already because JC rocks! :rawk:

Never lose this mentality because the day you do, is the day it becomes "a job" and not a passion. my worst fear is working in a cubical the rest of my life. i can only live free if im in the flight levels

Im not hating on ERAU, im just speaking from the experience i have had with the instructors and the people. I interviewed for a job a few weeks ago and was hired over three other people, two of which were riddle grads with more hours than me.

so based off that, i come to the conclusion that just because you have graduated from there does not give you the advantage.

I got a few of my ratings from a podunksville flight school as well and i am willing to bet that the training i recieved there is better than anything riddle or any other pilot mill in florida could produce.

There's one constant for aviation jobs. It doesn't matter where you went to school, short of very difficult flying like military or single pilot night cargo, it doesn't matter what you flew. It just matters how many hours you have.

I have to tell you guys. 90% of private colleges are an absolute waste of money. If you can get some sort of grant or scholarship that brings tuition down to the state school level then it may be a good choice. Otherwise, you can get just as good of an education if not better by going to a state school. Like I said, Harvard, Yale, Stanford might be worth $40,000+ a year. However, most private schools, Embry Riddle included, are a rip-off. My wife went to the University of Michigan paid $9,000 a year and was able to get into a top tier grad school. I went to Bowling Green State University and easily made it to Captain.

Honestly, I think the best choice is to do two years at a community college then finish out at a state school. Out of high school I went to a community college for a year, my total tuition for that year was $1200. In that year I knocked out every gen ed requirement for BGSU for about an 8th of the price. Also, after that first year the transfer requirements for most schools were about half what the freshman entry requirements were. Schools that wanted a 1200 sat and a 3.5 GPA were fairly satisfied with a straight 3.0 GPA (which isn't very hard to get in a community college).

No offense Gymhaus, but Embry Riddle isn't the Harvard of the sky that's just a clever moniker. When you applied for Embry Riddle what were the GPA and SAT/ACT requirements? Somewhere around a 4.0 and 1400? Did you have to be class president and captain of the football team? Embry Riddle calls itself Harvard of the Sky as a way of separating gullible kids from their money. I'm guessing that you've only recently started to pay back those loans. I don't envy you at all. My wife and I have a modest $60,000 or so in student loans along with credit card debt that we used for living expenses. 10 years later we're still paying it off.

To the OP, I urge you to do whatever is possible to avoid large student loan payments. As an FO making 19,000 a year you'll barely be able to eat while paying back those loans to Embry Riddle. Also, if you're going to take the time and trouble to obtain a college degree, get a degree in something that is useful if you lose your license. If I had to do it right now I would get a degree in a medical related field. Nursing with a BS would be an excellent option, my IOE Captain was an RN and he would pick up shifts a few nights a week at the hospital for a very handsome wage. Another good option would be engineering, accounting, pre-med, pre-dentistry anything that requires a professional license. Even if you just have the first four years done, you're that much closer to a license. In the coming years, these professional designations are going to be the difference between a middle class and lower class income.

I know that you don't want to do anything but fly. However, when that first furlough hits or you start to have heart problems all you're going to want is a way to feed your family. At that point all your years in the cockpit, along with your Aviation Science degree, are useless. Push yourself and get a degree in something you can use. I'm a prime example of someone that should have gotten a better degree. Once I had children I couldn't stand being away from home. The low wage I was earning basically paid for daycare and a few burgers from wendy's. I ended hating the job enough that I quit. Now I really wish I had a fallback degree that didn't require a masters. Learn from other people's mistakes.