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King Air 350 Type Rating

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by greezergriff7, Dec 20, 2004.

  1. greezergriff7

    greezergriff7 New Member

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    Just wondering how much a King Air 350 type rating would cost ya... also, would most insurance companies require dual pilot operation in a BE350 for part 91? If so, what kind of minimums would be required for SIC. Do you think you could even get insurance for SIC say if you had 400TT, 150 multi, and a BE350 type rating?


    just some stupid questions...
  2. Minima-No-Contact

    Minima-No-Contact Well-Known Member

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    Sweet avatar!!! [​IMG]

    Might be difficult to get insurance with only 400TT, but it depends on the type of operation you would be flying the B350 in.
  3. Mr_Creepy

    Mr_Creepy New Member

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    SIC yes. PIC no.

    Expect to spend about $10-15k
  4. greezergriff7

    greezergriff7 New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Sweet avatar!!! [​IMG]

    Might be difficult to get insurance with only 400TT, but it depends on the type of operation you would be flying the B350 in.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It would be Part 91 I believe. I live in a small town (25K), and a man that has a hangar across from mine ordered a King Air 350 to be delivered some time next year

    I've read that it can be operated Single pilot if the PIC has a Single Pilot Type Rating, but if he wanted to run two pilots in it then maybe I could have a shot at the right seat until I can get some higher times for insurance..

    I'm probably just dreamin.. [​IMG]
  5. Jason

    Jason Well-Known Member

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    I was in your shoes some years ago - although I did have slightly more time - and like John said you will be 'insureable' as an SIC with no problems but not a PIC. And a word of caution on the type rating - even if you have the $15K laying around you might want to think twice about it. The BE300 type is not the easiest type in the world and might be pretty hard for someone at your experience level(just being honest here). Out of my 3 types I would say the BE300 was the toughest. You would be better served to get some SIC time in it and then go for the type after a year or 2 in the airplane.

    Also, you say he 'ordered' the 350 which leads me to believe it's a brand new airplane - often times Flight Safety training will be included with the price of a new airplane. It's been a few years but I think we got our new 350 they threw in 2 PIC type ratings, an SIC training course, and 1 mechanic course.

    Jason
  6. ananoman

    ananoman New Member

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    There are two ways to attain the BE300 type rating. You can either get a single pilot type rating or a type rating with the notation 'Second in Command Required'. If the owner gets a single pilot type you cannot log SIC time under part 91. Also, with your low time, FlightSafety would not type you anyway. However, you might be able to get a type somewhere else.
  7. NJA_Capt

    NJA_Capt No Longer Visits JetCareers

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ...FlightSafety would not type you anyway. However, you might be able to get a type somewhere else.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I have a close personal friend that got the combined Be300/1900 type at Flight Safety with less than 300TT and a fresh multi. At the time, he was the lowest time, "typed" King Air pilot in the country....per FSI.

    His employer paid for his type.
  8. ananoman

    ananoman New Member

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    Those were the days. They are pretty strict about this now due to liability. Unfortunately you also no longer get the BE1900 type thrown in with the B300.
  9. Mr_Creepy

    Mr_Creepy New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Those were the days. They are pretty strict about this now due to liability. Unfortunately you also no longer get the BE1900 type thrown in with the B300.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They won't "throw it in" but they will allow you to get both types at once. Just costs $$$. You have to pay the examiner twice and take two rides.
  10. Minima-No-Contact

    Minima-No-Contact Well-Known Member

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    5 yrs ago, I did my B1900 type with 280hrs total and got a job in the right seat only a couple of months later. Right place, right time and all that... 3000hrs later, I'd say its paid off.

    Make your own opportunities in this game.
  11. GregCollins2

    GregCollins2 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    5 yrs ago, I did my B1900 type with 280hrs total and got a job in the right seat only a couple of months later. Right place, right time and all that... 3000hrs later, I'd say its paid off.

    Make your own opportunities in this game.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Surely you're not being foolish enough to suggest PFT!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]
  12. Minima-No-Contact

    Minima-No-Contact Well-Known Member

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    Not PFT. However, I do think the times we live in now do not allow up-and-coming pilots to sit back and wait for natural progression through to the jet jobs.

    Look at Europe and Australia for example. Easyjet, Ryanair, Jetstar and Virgin Blue are all companies that have you pay for your type rating. Say no, and no job. Another pilot will be more than happy to fork out.

    All I was saying, was that early on in my career I knew that to get in front of the next guy I was going to take certain risks in what path I would take and hope for the best... good advice helps too. Do not go and do a type then say you will work for free, or pay THEM to fly the aircraft to get hours. If they require a crewmember up front, they should pay you!!

    Merry Christmas all [​IMG]
  13. C650CPT

    C650CPT Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    There are two ways to attain the BE300 type rating. You can either get a single pilot type rating or a type rating with the notation 'Second in Command Required'. If the owner gets a single pilot type you cannot log SIC time under part 91. Also, with your low time, FlightSafety would not type you anyway. However, you might be able to get a type somewhere else.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In my best cousin Vinny voice ... Are you sure ...
    I've never heard of a certificate with a "Second in Command Required" notation. Please give me a reference for this, I'm curious because I've not heard this before.

    Also why would you say Flight Safety would not type someone. That is a false statement. If an individual meets the requirements and passes the checkride they get typed, or Flight Safety would loose alot of customers.

    Lets put out correct information NOT opinions, unless you qualify your statements as an opinion.

    Jim
  14. Mr_Creepy

    Mr_Creepy New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    There are two ways to attain the BE300 type rating. You can either get a single pilot type rating or a type rating with the notation 'Second in Command Required'. If the owner gets a single pilot type you cannot log SIC time under part 91. Also, with your low time, FlightSafety would not type you anyway. However, you might be able to get a type somewhere else.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In my best cousin Vinny voice ... Are you sure ...
    I've never heard of a certificate with a "Second in Command Required" notation. Please give me a reference for this, I'm curious because I've not heard this before.

    Also why would you say Flight Safety would not type someone. That is a false statement. If an individual meets the requirements and passes the checkride they get typed, or Flight Safety would loose alot of customers.

    Lets put out correct information NOT opinions, unless you qualify your statements as an opinion.

    Jim

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can chime in here.

    First of all, even if the pilot has a single pilot type, you CAN log SIC. Especially if it's Part 135 op. Any PIC can designate a qualified pilot to be SIC under any type of operation and you then become a required crew member.

    Second - he's right Jim. My type for the 1900 says "Second in Command Required."
  15. NJA_Capt

    NJA_Capt No Longer Visits JetCareers

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Are you sure ...
    I've never heard of a certificate with a "Second in Command Required" notation. Please give me a reference for this, I'm curious because I've not heard this before.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yes, I believe that's what's on my friend's ticket. Same with the larger King Airs and early Citation series. Ie...single pilot airplane, but the pilot doesn't have a "single pilot" type certificate.
  16. NJA_Capt

    NJA_Capt No Longer Visits JetCareers

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    [ QUOTE ]
    First of all, even if the pilot has a single pilot type, you CAN log SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Gotta disagree here. Part 91, with a aircraft certificated for Single pilot ops (C172, Baron, King Air 90-1900) and a single pilot "type rating" (KA300-1900, C525) You may NOT LOG SIC. It doesn't matter if "the boss," his wife, or the insurance company want two pilots.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Especially if it's Part 135 op. Any PIC can designate a qualified pilot to be SIC under any type of operation and you then become a required crew member.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    No again. A pilot cannot designate a required crew member in part 135. The designee with operational control, and the OPSpecs determine wether an SIC is required. Part 135, the SIC must also be trained and checked as qualified as SIC.

    Only in part 135, can a person log SIC in a aircraft that is certificated for 1 (one) pilot. (When they meet the appropriate qualifications for that capacity.)

    So if you go ride with your buddy on his freight run in the Baron, and he lets you "fly it." Aside from being HIGHLY illegal, you may NOT log that time....as PIC or SIC.
  17. C650CPT

    C650CPT Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    he's right Jim. My type for the 1900 says "Second in Command Required."

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I stand corrected, Thank you. My BE-200 or CE 500 type ratings don't say anything about second in command required ...

    Jim
  18. jonnyb

    jonnyb Well-Known Member

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    This subject is an age old opinion war..........
    [ QUOTE ]
    So if you go ride with your buddy on his freight run in the Baron, and he lets you "fly it." Aside from being HIGHLY illegal, you may NOT log that time....as PIC or SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    AND.........this is due to the fact that the guy "riding along" doesn't have the required 135 checks and isn't employed or contracted by the company.

    And to clarify............there is a big difference between logging SIC in a 172 or a Baron and a King Air 200. A King Air requires two pilots unless the airplane is equipped with and the PIC uses a certified auto pilot en lieu of a Second in Command. The PIC may elect to not exercise his/her single pilot privileges and use an SIC en lieu of the autopilot. A pilot may also log SIC in these type airplanes part 91 or 135 if company operations (SOP's and/or Op's Specs.) require an SIC.
  19. Mr_Creepy

    Mr_Creepy New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    First of all, even if the pilot has a single pilot type, you CAN log SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Gotta disagree here. Part 91, with a aircraft certificated for Single pilot ops (C172, Baron, King Air 90-1900) and a single pilot "type rating" (KA300-1900, C525) You may NOT LOG SIC. It doesn't matter if "the boss," his wife, or the insurance company want two pilots.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Especially if it's Part 135 op. Any PIC can designate a qualified pilot to be SIC under any type of operation and you then become a required crew member.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    No again. A pilot cannot designate a required crew member in part 135. The designee with operational control, and the OPSpecs determine wether an SIC is required. Part 135, the SIC must also be trained and checked as qualified as SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Since I am a chief pilot and check airman for a 135 operation, and most people on this board know this - I assumed this was implied. Apparently I can't assume anything.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Only in part 135, can a person log SIC in a aircraft that is certificated for 1 (one) pilot. (When they meet the appropriate qualifications for that capacity.)

    So if you go ride with your buddy on his freight run in the Baron, and he lets you "fly it." Aside from being HIGHLY illegal, you may NOT log that time....as PIC or SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Don't know where you get your info but you need new sources. My sources are all of the inspectors from the Orlando FSDO. They are 100% in agreement that an SIC can be designated by the PIC in any operation.

    If the FAA says it's legal then it is. They are the designated body for interpreting 14 CFR.

    They all agree that SIC time is relatively meaningless compared to PIC anyway. The purpose of logging it is primarily for insurance reasons.

    Now quit telling people they can't log SIC when sitting in the right seat. It's better than (falsely) logging PIC.
  20. Mr_Creepy

    Mr_Creepy New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    This subject is an age old opinion war..........
    [ QUOTE ]
    So if you go ride with your buddy on his freight run in the Baron, and he lets you "fly it." Aside from being HIGHLY illegal, you may NOT log that time....as PIC or SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    AND.........this is due to the fact that the guy "riding along" doesn't have the required 135 checks and isn't employed or contracted by the company.

    And to clarify............there is a big difference between logging SIC in a 172 or a Baron and a King Air 200. A King Air requires two pilots unless the airplane is equipped with and the PIC uses a certified auto pilot en lieu of a Second in Command. The PIC may elect to not exercise his/her single pilot privileges and use an SIC en lieu of the autopilot. A pilot may also log SIC in these type airplanes part 91 or 135 if company operations (SOP's and/or Op's Specs.) require an SIC.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well the 200 is a single pilot certified aircraft but you are 100% correct on the 300 and 350.

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