instructor pay scale

Low pay for junior pilots is an established practice and I'm not sure why it has to be that way. I suspect it has something to do with the amount of money an airline sinks into a pilot's initial training. Either way low-time pilots make a near poverty level wage. I don't think the public would be pleased to learn the copilot on their connecting flight to Minnie makes less than the assistant manager of the McDonalds they stopped at on the way to the airport.

what would the public care as long as their airfare was cheap?

That's IF we even want to go the regional route! Not all of us are aiming for it (like me). I still haven't ruled the regionals out, but my aim is to go charter/corporate.

Plus, in order to get up to that $22.00/hr you have to have gone through the series of low pay rates to get up there... and all the political bullsheeit that goes along with it.

I'm sure its easy for you to think this way, especially after UND turned you down for CFI employment.

I'm sure its easy for you to think that way, especially being a purebred UND cheerleader.

I do agree that there are other ways one may take to get experience, but you will soon find out that those jobs are difficult to come by. Most of the "entry level" coporate/charter jobs are much worse than regional flying! One thing you quickly learn, I know I did, there are no short cuts in this industry. You WILL pay your dues somewhere along the way.

So i guess actually enjoying where I live and what I do makes me a cheerleader. Notice i do not start threads to talk about how great this school is. But i do chime in when individuals such as yourself display such a negative attitude towards, well, everything. Its actually quite amusing how people such as yourself can be such tools to others just because their lifestyle is different than yours. An excellent attitude to display, i wish you luck with that.

UNDAF pays full medical benefits for the employee, spouse, and dependents. Good luck getting all that at most other starting CFI jobs. You also pay for initial and recurrent training as well as insurance with that extra balance.

How are you gonna get the time? You'll have to find something! You're gonna be lucky to find a company that's going to hire a 200 hour pilot, and it won't be a 135 operator... A low-time pilot starting at a 91 or 135 operator isn't gonna be making more than 20-25,000. There are CFI's at UND that I know currently make 30 a year.

And you don't have to go through the entire list of pay rates to get to the $22 pay. As long as you have a degree and you get Initial CFI Qualified (24 cal. months and 200 dual, or 400 dual and 5 certificate recommendations with 80% pass rate) you can move from the 13.50 to the 22 without your CFII or MEI.

You're right. It is quite sad that CFIs take a paycut "upgrading" to regionals, but that's not what is being discussed here. We are comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. We are comparing UND's payscale to other flight schools. Employee benefits?? Please....look at some schools in California and you'll realize there's much better out there. Take IFTA for example. They have a really good gig going there. A salaried position between $30-35K starting, including employee benefits and the perks of having 90% discount in Japanese carrier airfares, I think that's a really good start.

I honestly don't quite understand the kid mentality that most of you guys have. I know my messages offend you mainly because you're already working for the school and it's natural for humans to defend what they currently have, but if you sit down and think of it...your job isn't really all that.

KIDS, get rid of your ignorant mentality. Your complacency affects, not only this industry, but life in general.
I am sick of this kid mentality. How on earth could you possibly feel that working $10/hr is good for a CFI position? How could you possibly defend UND for paying you $22/hr teaching initial CFIs, only after you have been qualified to teach the course. Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most, it takes at least a semester to become qualified to teach initial CFIs based on the FAR requirements. That's about 5 months, if not more, of mediocre pay.

I don't even see how I should be even explaining this. I feel you guys have to become more exposed to life in general. For most of you, UND is your first job which is why you're really excited to be earning "$16/hr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You cannot compare UND CFI pay to other local jobs in GFK, this isn't a trade, it's a profession, treat it like one and quit acting like little child excited to have his/her first job.

I applied for the application experience, and the reason I was declined employment was because of my ground school grade of 'C'. Anything else you'd like to know about me? Applying for the position and accepting it are two different stories. I would not work for a miserable $10/hr as an undergraduate.

Flight instructing first, then making little money running checks in a Piper Seneca (as a random example), Part 91 operation, etc. I'm not at all denying the fact that first few years of pay is below poverty level - we all have to "pay our dues" since it's an industry fact. I think I came across as assuming I'd find gold in charter/corporate aviation. I am more in for the job stability and the exciting random schedules and destinations of corporate aviation.

I was referring to the 200 dual that you have to acquire... and that you make little money as a new CFI at UND in order to get up to the 200. But going from flight instructing to the "shiny jet job" for sure will be a pay cut from flight instructing, even at UND.

...try other comparable schools...(e.g. Sierra Academy who pays for housing and food)
True, you may not like Sierra Academy for its structure or location, but they pay decent for instructing and have benefits, as well.

I think what most of you guys are missing is that UND markets to gullible students like you who end up believing UND Aerospace is the best place in the world to work as an employee. If you're working here for the reputation while getting raped by the school, that's perfectly fine, but admit it. You cannot say UND pays better than most other schools because that would be a complete lie.

It's just a matter of getting exposed to what's out there. I feel sorry for those who don't have connections outside this school. I have a feeling most of your "networking" connections are from UND students, and surprisingly, as much as you guys might think I'm an #######, I have quite a number from people here and other instructors who've left before, along with connections around the states. I'm easy to get along with, and many people like me, but I don't tolerate ignorant mentality and I won't keep my mouth shut.

Being a social person helps. Networking doesn't mean sniffing someone's ass telling them how pretty they look just to get a job. By being a more social individual, not only are you opening yourself to a better life, but becoming exposed to other fields and life in general.

I know some of you guys in these forums, and I base my comments on those observations.

God, its too bad IFTA requires 250 dual given for instructors. Where do you suppose you are going to get the that required time?

You would have turned it down? Do you realize that you could have been earning dual given towards that IFTA job?

What application experience were you referring to? The UND job application was one of the easiest applications I have ever filled out, they don't even require a cover letter or reseme. As far as the hardest part in the process goes, its a test. After four year of college I would hope that your experienced as far as that goes.

Oh, I see...so the application consisted of only the written test, and that alone? Damnit...I didn't know it was that easy.

I would have declined any students, yes.

oh lets see... mom and pop FBO for a couple months while i live somewhere i LOVE that has all the amenities and culture i require...while working another job that utilizes my other skills, and will still pay more than UND's crap wage?

just a thought.

Therein lies the problem I'm afraid. Too many guys treat it like their first job the had back when they were 14 working at the grocery store. Nothing's gona change if a large enough group of people keep thinking like that.

It's pretty sad if you ask me. I can bank more money stocking soda than teaching someone how to fly.

no, they treat it like their first job....because it IS their first job.

If you had actually read the post, i said the hardest part was the written test. You still need to be able to display very basic instrument flying skills as well as not choke up while teaching a subject or basic HR questions.

You know....normally I don't chime in to the defense of friends because the credibility of my post would be questionable due to my ties w/ said individuals, but here's one post that I cannot avoid making. I think one of the reasons why I get along with those who I get along w/ from JC is because they're well rounded individuals. (by well rounded, I don't mean that they enjoy hunting and fighting sioux as an extracurricular activity or hobby. I refer to their life's experiences) I think for most of you, aviation is the only thing in life and perhaps is why you feel so tied to UND, because UND exposed you to your love. There's nothing wrong w/ loving aviation. I love aviation too, but it's not the center and core of my life. I realize this is going on a tangent, but I think it might have something to do with such mentality. Just a thought.