Found a Proud Gulfstreamer Myspace

That's what I tried to point out in another thread.

Well, it's his *attitude* that is really really shocking:

Sadly, he'll probably get hired at Airtran much before we'll ever do.
This guy is gonna make a terrible captain to fly with one day. I hope I don't have to share the cockpit with him.

When one person works there, it just puts another 'nail in the coffin' as don said. It certainly doesnt help pay of any airline. Leaves a bad example for others to come, and these poor people think they're really getting good experience, when in fact it doesnt prepare them for ****. They (along with this guy) get excited with supposed "turbine time." What the hell does it mean, when you cant even operate the aircraft with the proper experience.

When one wants to achieve his goal, with the put down of all others in the industry, i dont approve it, put simply.

How is the guy excited by building "supposed turbine time" any different to the newly minted F/O at a regional operating CRJ's, who is building "jet time". (I am using quotes since you did). Is the jet time "supposed" as well?
Kindly explain "supposed".

Furthermore, how is he ANY different to the aforementioned F/O who has ALSO just completed his x week indoctrination training?
Where lies the deficit in their respective "proper experience"? Is your argument predicated on the fact that the indoctrination training at Gulfstream is not of the same quality as another airline?

You say that they aren't prepared for ****. Are you telling us all that a pilot with 318 hours of Turbine PIC is ill-prepared?

Ill-prepared for what, another job flying turbine aircraft as a First Officer?

Thanks Doug I will.

BritPilot, I'll save you a little bit of reading (although you should definatly read up on it). Here's the problem with Gulfstream. Every other airline that operates 1900s pays a captain and a first officer to fly the plane. They may not pay them much, but they do pay them. So, say you have the magic number of hours to apply to an airline (1000 hours for the example here) and say that for the sake of argument there are only two airlines out there. They both fly 1900s and both have an opening for 1 FO. Well, there is you and two other guys who have the required time. So you put in your apps and you hope for the best. Well, little did you know, one of these airlines has decided to PFJ. Instead of having a 2/3 shot of getting hired your chances went to 1/3. Also, some guy with 200 hours and rich daddy is now sitting in what in theory could have been your seat. Well, let's say you are lucky and do get hired to the other airline. They say their starting pay is $20 an hour. You get around to actually signing the employment letter and they say "oh, by the way, our competitor is actually having people pay THEM to fly. We don't believe in that, but if people are willing to pay us to sit there, I guess we only need to give you $15 an hour." So you say it's only a 1900. Who cares. You will put in your time and then move one. Well, what happens if the company flying the nice shiny jet you've had your eye on every time you land at the major airport decides to start having people pay the, to work in the right seat. Unless you want to shell out the bucks, you aren't ever going to get out of the 1900. And it goes on from there.

"If he has chosen his path and we have chosen ours, why the condemnation"

Cause you have to draw the line somewhere. Scabs? Should we condemn them? They take advantage of a labor situation for their own personal gain.

Gulfstream? Guys that buy into the scheme are taking advantage of an airline running what I consider an immoral practice. Renting out the right seat at a regional airline that says Continental on the side of it. Making the right seat a revenue source. This is just not right. Every professional pilot should be appalled at this labor practice and speak against it if they ever meet someone who has followed it.

That's my reason for not "just looking the other way". We all draw our lines in different places. If you want to accept Gulfstream as an acceptable way to enter this career, feel free. I'm not buying it....

When i used quotes around turbine time, i used it cuz that's the whole point everyone is showing. I get valuable turbine time..woohoo, congratulations.

Just because they can (or from this statement, SOME CAN) fly the plane and tell you about the systems of the aircraft doesnt mean it gives them the experience needed to handle situations (not naming any situations) that might arise if had previous experience. Of course you can never know EVERYTHING in terms of what can happen, but i'd rather have someone have 1000 hours flying a plane, than someone who has 250 hours of experience.

Experience is a valuable thing. It helps you all around in all aspects of life.

Here check what he said...

" damn i think i forgot to tell u why i agree with u a tiny bit on the experience part. We do have guys that cant fly the plane for **** and cant even remember the emergancy action items when u ask them. They dont really give a **** about wut is goin on in the airplane. Those kinds of people are what make the program look bad and with those people i can see why u guys dont like us. But for the people like me that are pretty much married to the carrier and treat it like it should be and actually care about what is going on well they are gonna have a great life. I am glad that i got to hear ur opinion and it was nice that u let me voice myside because most of u guys dont allow any other opinion and just go with wut u think. "

BritPilot,

While I dont necessarily agree with Bigey picking on this gulfstreamer, I do agree with his view as well as many other on the view of PFT/PFJ.

There is a diffrence because me choosing to flight instruct to build time, or Joe Schmoes choice to traffic watch or John Does decision to fly skydivers doesnt affect any other pilot out there. But this myspacers choice to PFJ brings down the whole industry.....

I work for an airline that is widely known for hiring gulfstreamers. Unfortunately, we are also known for a poor safety record because of 2 very serious incidents. One of them ending with 2 fatalities. Is this a coincidence? Maybe or maybe not, you decide.

however, here is something that I believe 100% is not coincedental. As I stated my airline hired a very high number of gulfstreamers in the past. During that time we were the only airline, that i knew of, that didnt pay for anything in training. No hotel, no per diem, no guarentee. Absolutely NOTHING. Then due to the accidents mentioned above we stopped hiring gulfstreamers. We had to find guys "off the streets". SInce then our company now offers hotel, and pay (not monthly guarentee, but at least money to eat) to attract new hires as well as a very attractive signing bonus once you finish training.

If the 8 hours of good reading material Doug referred to you earlier didnt help, I hope this post did.

Unfortunately that is exactly what it is. He thinks his route is the quickest route and best use of his money for HIS ultimate career goal. he doesnt look at the big picture. All he thinks is I got a good deal because he only paid 100 dollars an hour for turbine time ($25,000 / 250 hours). They dont realize that they will be paying for it for the rest of their careers.

p.s. sorry grammar patrol, but my engrish no good

The airline you mentioned above, that sorta rhmyes with Barnicle, aren't they still hiring a lot of pilots through GIA? I know they stopped after the 2 fatality accident, but as of now 2006, aren't they back to hiring from GIA ?

"The reason he singled this guy out is by doing so, he can continue to fit in to a group who's rhetoric is short sighted"

Total BS. The kid's entitled to his opinion without you judging him.

"I see no difference in this whatsoever!"
"The only difference is the airplane I fly can't carry 18 more people."

Now I think you're just trying to start an argument (which is what you live for) rather than have an intelligent conversation. While you see no difference, the industry and standard practice see's a huge difference.

"They line up behind the majority just to fit in. It is a mob mantality which is really comical"

I find it interesting to see JCer's having opinions on things and post different things in different ways. It's like each person has a different on-line personality. If you think people here agree on things to fit in, you aren't paying attention. The few things we do agree on, you'll find general agreement with throughout the industry on.

Blah Blah, all you want to do here is argue and piss people off. It's fun and entertaining for you like we are the enemy or something. Grow up...

"Bigey, why would you single out this person and post them on a anti-gulfstream site????"

First of all, there are no pro-Gulfstream websites other than www.gulfstreamacademy.com

You'll find the same level of "attitude" about Gulfstream at all the sites. Look around if you don't believe me.

Second of all, I think a new Gulfstream thread is great every now and then. Newbies get to see something fresh to base their decisions on and I think that's a good thing.

So it's gonna take a fatal accident in each regional for them to stop hiring GIA people? If these regionals were to stop hiring these guys, it would be the end of GIA, or maybe they'd actually have to start paying their FOs.

"Then due to the accidents mentioned above we stopped hiring gulfstreamers"

Blee, I was trying to find a reference on-line the other day about Pinnacle's decision to stop hiring Gulfstreamers. The best I could do was a flightinfo thread about the crash where it was mentioned as being either an insurance thing or an FAA thing. Nothing really concrete. You know any more about it?

I know you guys are back to hiring Gulfstream guys now, as does Colgan. Did the mins change at all? Why did they stop for a time?

Instead of posting little tidbits of a post that others can't see, post the entire post. You already know I am being moderated, so posting partial posts of mine that won't see the light of day is truley absurd. I guess you will just use what fits to further your beliefs. Of course, this response probably won't see the light of day either since I am pointing out that what you're doing is wrong!

DE727, you are correct, my mistake. I should have written "after" the accident instead of syaing "due to" I never did hear anything official about why we stopped hiring gulfstreamers.

From what I understand, they did start hiring streamers again. BUt it doesnt seem like its in the same numbers as they used to. Kellwolf might know since he is in class here.

"Instead of posting little tidbits of a post that others can't see, post the entire post"

Now you're telling me how to post? Up yours....

"I guess you will just use what fits to further your beliefs. Of course, this response probably won't see the light of day either since I am pointing out that what you're doing is wrong!"

You think I'm wrong and I think you just like to stir up crap. We are both entitled to our opinions. You're getting moderated but it's not because of this thread. I don't follow you around to see what you post but you must have crossed Doug's line on how to behave at this site. I've deleted your stuff before when you got out of control but you don't see me doing that now.

I think you're a martyr in your own mind...