Favorite way to "protect" your logbook

Overall I am much happier with flightlogg. I feel that lbpro was fairly easy to use but it was harder for me to find the more complex stuff. Flightlogg to me, is better because it is free, easier for me to use, and accesible from any computer with internet.

I agree that for some things it is worth it to pay the money, to me lbpro is not one of them.

haha touche...however my pair of bose x could probably help increase somebodys bank account...

Honestly, I find flightlogg.in WAAAAYYY more user friendly than logbook pro. To be honest, I think lbp is a pain in the rear, but I just got to the point where I couldn't count on flightlogg.

Fire proof safe, a gun, and a hound dog!

Although you still do have to pay for each device you want to use the application on, LogTen is awesome, and no further fees after initial purchase. Route mapping is free, and it gives you tons and tons of different ways to print out your logs... took me forever to convert all my time, but once you get into the groove it goes pretty fast.

Sorry if my correcting your incorrect statement offended you. Normally professionals like to be correct, but there are always exceptions.

Incidentally, I've never been asked to show my logbook to the Administrator either, but that doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to both of us.

That is acceptable because your company is keeping records in a manner acceptable to the administrator. The same logic applies to military aviators. There are military pilots who hold FAA certificates and fly civil aircraft who have never even owned a log book, and that is perfectly acceptable.

Who judges "what is acceptable to the administrator?"

A random ops inspector? Obviously that would never get past FAA legal so why even put that in the regs? It's way too open to interpretation for any legal recourse to get far.

If any inspector tried to tell me "This is not an acceptable manner to me" I would probably just take my cocktail napkin and stop wasting my time with him.

Several issues.
1. If you need to continue logging time to show aeronautical experience necessary for a rating. If this is the case you need to log in a way that is acceptable to the examiner. Show up with cocktail napkins and the examiner probably willnot share your sense of humor.
2. If you have an accident or incident the FAA will want to see your logbook to establish currency. Failure to provide your logbook in a timely manner usually leads to revocation. Failure to show currency usually leads to suspension.
3. If you are in an accident or incident the insurance company will want to see your logbook to show compliance with the insurance policy. No logbook? Insurance may not cover the incident. Recently saw an article where it is assumed the logbook burned up in the post accident fire. The insurance money is now tied up in litigation as the insurance company wants proof that the PIC complied with the policy.
4. Job interviews. Again, show up with cocktail napkins showing experience and the person doing the interview may not share your sense of humor. I tell pilots to ALWAYS look for your next job, even if your current job is your dream job. You never know what tomorrow holds.
5. 121/135/125/91(k) requriements are obviously different, but if you want to use this experience to comply with part 91 requirements for flying then you should have proof. Also, if you accidentally overfly hour limits because you are not tracking things the FAA WILL come after you (as well as the company), if they find out.
So what did I do? When flying 135/121 I used one of the mini logbooks that fits in your breast pocket. I would log my time during trips then make a one line entry in my personal logbook upon my return (kept in a fireproof safe). Military flying I kept one of those mini calendars in my breast pocket and did the same. When I returned from my one year forced vacation I made a one line entry in my logbook for the year of time and stuck the calendar in the safe. Maybe my grand kids will be amused by it.

BTW, for those interested you can go to the NTSB Legal database and search for "logbook". A bunch of entries (though many concern aircraft logbooks).

I thought you were being sarcastic until I read this

And this

Ask 10 people who fly for a living and I guarantee you that 9 of them haven't touched a log book in months. My company logs all my flights for me, if the administrator was really that eager to see my records, I'll call my ops department.

Besides, an inspector can not just go up to Joe pilot and ask to see his logs. You would have 10 to 30 days to cough them up.

Don't ever show them anything without a written, certified letter mailed to you. Even then it has to be reasonable request.

I don't think the insurance company has any legal right whatsoever to see your logbooks. I have had people close to me die in accidents and logbooks were never asked for. Even the aircraft logs. The insurance still paid out..

I would NEVER give my logbooks to the insurance company.

They most certainly do have the right if part of the policy stipulates you are current and qualified to fly the aircraft. If it can not be proved that this is the case the insurance company has every right to deny the coverage and you can sue them until you are blue in the face but the law will in all likelihood honor the contract (insurance policy). So feel free to exercise your right not to show proof of currency, qualification and other requirements stipulated in the policy. The insurance company will exercise their right not to honor the policy.

Don't ever touch them. Mine still look new.

I keep my Paper Logs and printed Cirrus Elite binder in my safe. I then email my Logbook pro backup to my work account and keep of copy on Logbook Pro's server.

As a last resort I can always use my 8710 or last 8500-8 to prove flight time.

If you want you can send Logbook Pro your logs and their staff will enter them for you.

You're correct on both counts. It wasn't sarcasm, and you would be in compliance with the regulations by maintaining your records through your operator. Although "fly for a living" is a little broad. Fly for a 121 or 135 operator is probably more accurate. The records just have to be recorded in a manner acceptable to the Administrator. Since the Administrator (through the POI) approved the operator's record keeping procedures, that is certainly a method that is acceptable to the Administrator. In reality, if the flight records are examined, it is almost certain it will be with an eye towards compliance with duty time and not for currency
.

Taking your cocktail napkin and terminating the waste of your time with him (or her) would certainly be an option. But, if you do that, hang on to your cocktail napkin. You'll need it later when you get to waste your time with the NTSB's ALJ.

As so often happens, Blackhawk brought up some good points and reminded me of another aspect regarding logbooks that is worth mentioning. It is not at all rare for a pilot's estate (widow, orphans, etc.) to have to defend the actions of a pilot who can no longer defend himself. In such cases, records are a valuable part of the evidence needed to mount such a defense.

One other item to consider is the kind of aircraft one fly's for a commercial operator and what is flown for recreation. I am very familiar with a case in which a pilot flew heavy AMEL airplanes and that flight time was recorded by the company. Then he would fly other category and class aircraft outside of work for fun. However, he didn't log that flight time. He was unwittingly in violation of a couple different regulations. Fortunately, he became aware of the need to log at least some of his recreational flying before anything happened.

The following two items are from FAA Order 8900.1, and are related to a couple items raised in this thread:

Section 8. Pilot Logbooks
NOTE: Inspectors are reminded that this section applies to pilot recordkeeping requirements and should not be confused with the operator's recordkeeping responsibility under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 121 and 135.
5-171 GENERAL. Aeronautical training and experience that is used by airmen to meet the requirements for a certificate or rating, or for recent flight experience, must be documented in a reliable record. This section provides guidance to operations inspectors on the requirement for airmen possession of logbook records and replacement of pilot flight experience records. A pilot logbook is the primary evidence of pilot experience; however, inspectors may accept operator records in lieu of a personal pilot logbook. Pilot logbooks or those company records used to meet the recordkeeping requirements of 14 CFR part 61, section (§) 61.51 may be inspected upon reasonable request by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator, an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), or any state or local law enforcement officer.

5-172 LOST LOGBOOKS OR FLIGHT RECORDS. Inspectors should advise airmen that they may reconstruct lost logbooks or flight records by providing a signed statement of previous flight time.
A. Proof of Experience. Airmen may use the following items to substantiate flight time and experience:
• Aircraft logbooks,
• Receipts for aircraft rentals,
• Operator records,
• Copies of airman medical files, and
• Copies of FAA Form 8710-1, Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application.