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Factual NTSB Report from Ben's Crash

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by jtrain609, Jul 4, 2012.

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  1. jtrain609 Well-Known Member

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    jtrain609, Jul 4, 2012
    #1

  2. Boris Badenov Sapping and Impurifying.

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    Damn. That sucks. Why would the gauges be indicating a large amount of fuel if there wasn't any? MikeD?

    Miss you, Ben. :(
    Boris Badenov, Jul 4, 2012
    #2

  3. MikeD Administrator

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    Hard to say why the gauges were inaccurate, besides being Cessna gauges from a light-single fuel quantity indicating system. Also hard to say why one wouldn't visually acertain the fuel quantity level in an aircraft where there is the capability to do so. It appears that switching the tank wasn't accomplished either, when granted his workload would've now gone from low to extremely high. But one of the basic steps following an engine failure was nonetheless missed. Good takeaways from this one. There always are.
    MikeD, Jul 4, 2012
    #3

  4. Boris Badenov Sapping and Impurifying.

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    Yeah, there but for the grace of God, etc etc.
    Boris Badenov, Jul 4, 2012
    #4

  5. MikeD Administrator

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    Agree. Fuel was present, just in the left (other) tank; as the fuel tanks didn't appear to get compromised post-impact, so I believe the quantities found by investigators in both tanks to be accurate. Without a CVR, I have no idea why Ben didn't switch tanks, but factually speaking, it doesn't appear this was done; as it wouldn't make sense that he switched to left, then for some reason back to the right until impact. Switching to left should've had fairly quick results, especially with no overarching problems with the engine or fuel system itself. Could've been an error of omission or one of commission, in that, it could've been everything from workload handling the emergency, all the way to not knowing to perform the action. Again, without a CVR and not having been in the cockpit, I can't speak to his thought process, I can only evaluate the known facts at hand. Still, there are lessons to be learned from this one in order to make his death not in vain; however the lessons there are in this accident, aren't new lessons that have been discovered in aviation.
    MikeD, Jul 4, 2012
    #5
    Boris Badenov likes this.

  6. Jet Well-Known Member

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    Who's Ben? Sorry to hear.
    Jet, Jul 4, 2012
    #6

  7. Blackhawk Well-Known Member

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    The part about the seats being installed incorrectly during the annual while not a factor in the crash is kind of scary.
    Blackhawk, Jul 4, 2012
    #7
    WacoFan likes this.

  8. TurdBird Well-Known Member

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    Ben was an awesome JC member who was lost in this crash.
    TurdBird, Jul 4, 2012
    #8

  9. SpiraMirabilis Possible Subversive

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    SpiraMirabilis, Jul 4, 2012
    #9

  10. Patrick Well-Known Member

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    Sad to hear. RIP.
    Patrick, Jul 4, 2012
    #10

  11. WacoFan What difference, at this point, does it make.

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    A friend of a friend wiped out a Cessna 180 when the seat went all the way back unexpectedly. I always remembered that and always paid special attention to any Cessna seat position and how secure it was. I think the most obvious time for that to occur is during rotation . Makes me wonder if Ben weren't somehow distracted.
    WacoFan, Jul 4, 2012
    #11
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  12. Screaming_Emu Wiggle wiggle wiggle...YEAH

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    I make it a point to double check that my seat is locked in the canuck jet and then shake it around a bit to make sure it won't move on its own. I've had multiple captains slide all the way back during the takeoff roll. Not a good thing to happen during rotation.
    Screaming_Emu, Jul 4, 2012
    #12

  13. IrishSheepdog Neighborhood Watch

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    I had that happen a couple times in the ERJ as well. I did as you did, "shaking" around to ensure the seat would lock. However, that didn't always help. So I found where the peg inserted into the floor track, and would push down on it to ensure it seated correctly. 50% of the time, it would push down, meaning it wasn't seated properly. I believe the main issue was the amount of dirt and filth stuck in the seat tracks.
    IrishSheepdog, Jul 4, 2012
    #13

  14. Screaming_Emu Wiggle wiggle wiggle...YEAH

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    Yup, I think its the same for us too. Too many cooke crumbs.
    Screaming_Emu, Jul 4, 2012
    #14

  15. Cessnaflyer Concessions? I have nothing to concede!

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    Same in the Dash. Besides sticking a stop block in the hole, I am surprised there aren't any other fixes for these seats.

    At least in a car it seems most of the time when the seat isn't locked it usually only slides a few inches.
    Cessnaflyer, Jul 4, 2012
    #15

  16. wildfreightess Well-Known Member

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    Heartbreaking. Miss you Ben.
    wildfreightess, Jul 4, 2012
    #16

  17. MikeD Administrator

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    Is there any evidence supporting this? Sounds like he was attempting to manage an engine problem, unknowingly fuel related, and the rest was as explained above with not switching tanks.
    MikeD, Jul 4, 2012
    #17

  18. Cessnaflyer Concessions? I have nothing to concede!

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    I think just assuming he was distracted by that previously and how it didn't aide in his ability to remembering to switch the tanks.
    Cessnaflyer, Jul 4, 2012
    #18

  19. MikeD Administrator

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    Assuming being the key word. Go by evidence at hand. Anything else is a disservice, people.
    MikeD, Jul 4, 2012
    #19
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  20. dc3flyer Well-Known Member

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    Glad you found and posted this jtrain. I wish there had been some other reason, but it sounds like he just assumed the owner (the first person to fly the plane that day) and done a thourough preflight, including checking the fuel. Of course we don't know, but the owner could have easily told Ben he had enough fuel to make it back, I am sure they discussed it at some point.


    It sounds like the seat issue was fixed before Ben's last takeoff.
    dc3flyer, Jul 4, 2012
    #20
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