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Exemption 3585

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by dflyboy, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. dflyboy

    dflyboy Well-Known Member

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    my class date is in 2 weeks and I'm trying to wrap my head around the exemption 3585... Any help/suggestions?
     
  2. meyers9163

    meyers9163 Well-Known Member

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    First Officer??? Newbie or upgrade? And if a newbie do not worry about this.... It is one of the least of your worries.
     
  3. dflyboy

    dflyboy Well-Known Member

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    I've been flying part 135 cargo for a while, but this is my first 121 gig (yes FO) but it is on the indoc test.
     
  4. BobDDuck

    BobDDuck Gone whale watching...

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    It's the People Express Exemption.

    Just memorize what ever answer they give you in indoc and then find a handy cheat sheet (I'm sure most line captains have one) to use to check the weather. It's annoying complex and kind of stupid.

    What it boils down to is a way to ignore conditional (becoming, tempo etc) statements in a TAF if you have a second alternate. It's a real mess and in actually operations I've only been dispatched under it a handful of times.
     
  5. TUCKnTRUCK

    TUCKnTRUCK Doing the creep.

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    Short version, Allows you to be dispatched when the weather at your destination may be below minimums.

    If a conditional statement in your taf (Probo, tempo, BCMG) is calling for ceiling or visability below the lowest approach, you may still be dispatched, but require a second alternate. ( Main body for that time period can not be below mins though)

    the weather at the 1st Alternate must be at or above the derived minimums for ceiling or visability, at the second alternate, it must be at minimums established for filing as an alternate.

    alternate minimums are derived by the number of approaches, and type.

    If you are coming to the NE saab routes at colgan, you will use it. prob. lots.. and then it becomes easy.
     
  6. v1valarob

    v1valarob Well-Known Member

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    I actually have not seen it yet at Colgan in my 2 years.
     
  7. TUCKnTRUCK

    TUCKnTRUCK Doing the creep.

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    I had it like Bi-weekly in AUG,RKD,BHB... Where's Al Gore and his Global warming spheel?
     
  8. v1valarob

    v1valarob Well-Known Member

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    I think they just put the dumb dispatchers on the United desk.
     
  9. kellwolf

    kellwolf Deadbeat

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    Get CAT II. Then you forget about 3585 until you have a plane with the CAT II deferred. Then you have to look it up. :)
     
  10. ljg

    ljg Well-Known Member

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    Fixed a few things...
    Just trying to help. Oh, and the BECMG group is a MAIN body element, not a conditional remark. If it were still used in the US, it couldn't be used for 3585. Also, PROBS aren't coded in the first 9 hours of a TAF anymore in the US - so the likelihood of using 3585 domestically on a PROB group is slim to none.
     
  11. Soul Brotha'

    Soul Brotha' Well-Known Member

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    What BobDuck said memorize the answer they give you in class. As a FO the guy in the left seat is responsible for that.
     
  12. Polar742

    Polar742 VP, Lights and Switches

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    How do you know when the CA makes a mistake?

    When I used to teach this in school, I found a way to draw it. However, since I'm technologically impaired, I'm not sure if I can reproduce it on the computer. When I'm on my next trip, I'll give it a try.
     
  13. BobDDuck

    BobDDuck Gone whale watching...

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    Pshhh... Captains don't make mistakes. Clearly you've been back in the right seat for too long.
     
  14. Polar742

    Polar742 VP, Lights and Switches

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    Well, everyone but me is napping in the house, so I made some productive time.

    So I've attached a drawing that is based off my recollection of 3585 exemption, and made in a worst case scenario. I like to base the scenario with a destination of LGA and alternates of JFK and EWR, as they are about equidistant.

    We'll just avoid the entire operator-defined "marginal" conditions that require a second alternate.

    If I got something incorrect, let me know, and we'll fix it.

    Cheers and beers.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Polar742

    Polar742 VP, Lights and Switches

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    I updated the .pdf, but too late to edit the post.

    I forgot that the conditional portions of the forecast can be an AND/OR statement. Either the destination OR first alternate can have the conditional remark, or the destination AND the first alternate have conditional remarks.

    Apologies for the omission.
     

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  16. BobDDuck

    BobDDuck Gone whale watching...

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    I scanned in the cheat sheet most of us carry here. Keep in mind some of this may not apply to you depending on your opspecs.

    [​IMG]
     

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  17. Nick

    Nick Well-Known Member

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    Hey Polar that PDF link isn't working. Any chance you can re-load it?
     
  18. Polar742

    Polar742 VP, Lights and Switches

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    I tried...if that doesn't work, I'll email it to you and you can use your innerweb savvy to fix my incompetence.
     
  19. SpiraMirabilis

    SpiraMirabilis Possible Subversive

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    The easiest way to remember it is that it provided releif from conditional statements.
     
  20. Soul Brotha'

    Soul Brotha' Well-Known Member

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    My Spidey senses tell me when something is wrong:). I know what you're getting at. It's a two crew operation up there. I was trying to make a funny. Check ops manual when there is anything in question.
     

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