Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Cessna310, May 11, 2012.
Dear God no! I AM SKYGOD! Hear the roar of my mighty Beech!
Good. I was going to start finding out who you are posting here, and what you did with DPApilot....what closet or basement you had him locked in.
I could run with this, but I will refrain.
The minefield was setup in such a way as to see if you'd decide to walk through it........
Hey, while everyone is here, I wanted to ask a question.
I was wondering if I should get my ATP. I mean I'm already really awesome. It's really hard too, I have to open books and stuff. Reading words has never been my thing. I'm more of a picture guy. And did I mention I'm awesome?
On a realistic note, if you can afford it, why would you NOT get your CFI. Using it is one thing, but the biggest thing I learned while earning my CFI is how little I actually knew. I was pretty rote up until that point. But when you get down to having to teach stuff, that's when you really learn.
For the original poster, you claim to be a good pilot. And you might be. You might be able to go out there and rock a steep turn like nobody's business. Being a good stick is a great skill to have. Unfortunately, stick and rudder skills are the easy part. Most plane crashes aren't because someone botched a V1 cut, or landed off centerline. Most are caused by a series of events that the pilot does not have the skill, knowledge, or decision making ability to overcome. Experience counts for a lot, but until you gain experience you have to have a solid foundation of knowledge and discipline to fill the holes.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is what I believe our major flaw in our profession is. People want to become professional pilots. They view it as a destination instead of a trade...or a sport even. People get to the airlines and think "that's it, I've made it." and stop learning. I'm guilty of this myself. As a group we should be trying to be the best that we can instead of "good enough to pass."
Then there is the resume aspect of it. People who have worked as CFIs know what good experience it can be. It is a definite plus to the resume. Think of it this way. You could be the Ron Jeremy of flying. Incredibly...gifted. But if he wasn't already a professional, I don't think he'd have a very easy time picking up ladies at the bar...cause he is fugly. Even with his tremendous....uh...skillet, you have to have the first impression so you can expose your skills to others. Taking every opportunity that you can feasibly do to better your resume can't possibly hurt.
Hey, im drunk to!
To add one more thing that was touched on recently in another thread. I matured socially during my time as a CFI more than any time in my life. I'm very much an introvert. Social situations used to be very uncomfortable for me. But working as a CFI built my confidence both as a pilot and as a person. I went from being uncomfortable talking in front of a group of 3-4 people, to where if someone asked me to get up on stage in front of thousands of people I wouldn't give it a second thought.
You also will learn how to deal with people. Even working single pilot your whole career, you will have to work with people you don't care for. But this is a job. You aren't here to make friends. So unless there is a HUGE personality conflict that one or either side can't drop, you're going to have to know how to deal with that.
I'm flying a trip like that right now actually. A very bitter negative person. Criticizes everyone but himself for everything imaginable. Has a personal vendetta for pilots of certain airlines that "cost me my job at a major" when his airline went out of business. He is a great pilot, but is not fun to work with because of his personality. But when you work with enough people, especially when they are your customers (can't usually just walk away) you learn how to diffuse certain situations so you can get down to business.
So to continue the beating of this dead horse I wanted to add my (somewhat limited) aviation experience. I went to a four year aviation college. i got all my ratings and certificates except my CFI/CFII/MEI. I just couldnt afford to get them and after having several bad instructors i was a bit jaded. Because my heart was not in it I did not want to do it. I didn't want to be another half-assed instructor who just views their students as simply a stepping stone to their airline slot. I did take the instructor ground school, passed my FOI, FIA but I was completely broke.
Saying all that, I do have a college degree and my A&P. It was those that got my my current job. I have worked hard, proved myself to guys twice my age. Yes, I do have a lot to learn still, but no one who has flown with me has EVER looked down on me because I was not an instructor. I have even been an in training captain with my company, working with qualified pilot and teaching them our systems, procedures and nonflying skills required for my job. I will get my CFI eventually but its never prevented me from being successful in my job.
I guess what I'm saying to Cessna310 is that yes, it is very possible to be successful in aviation without being a CFI. Its not easy as if you truly want to be an awesome pilot it takes a lot of study, work, practice and experience. I can only hope that some of the harsh criticism that you've received on here is because people want you to be safe and successful in your aviation career.
I wouldn't limit the answer to "very possible". It's completely possible and doable to be successful without a CFI. CFI is just one track of aviation. As good a track as any other, but simply one track. Nice to do, but not a requirement.
I'm 18 too, I don't have the hours you have, nor the vast opportunity in the immediate future that you have... I have 285 TT, no multi-engine time. I do have my CSEL cert though. How do you do it? Where did you get the funding for all that? I worked as much as a could with school, and a life and I still wasn't able to pay for all of it myself... Especially with that multi time.. You've got a hell of an opportunity, and I just think you need to realize how lucky you are. Hell, I'm extremely fortunate, but I worked my ass off for it.
I'll be quite honest, I've read, and read, and studied for about six months now... I havn't taken any of the CFI tests at this point. I'm actually scared of them, every day I doubt myself, I'm constantly thinking I'm not smart enough to be a CFI... But I'm sure as hell going to try. I stopped busting my ass for flying about a year ago though, it took meeting a girl that I honestly cared about. I always thought I was going to be the single-pilot through college, livin the life, yada yada. But she supports the whole flying thing, and it's fantastic(She even bought my tickets to Hawaii for my 18th birthday).
My point in stating that is that their are other things besides flying, it aint worth stressing out, or giving up your social life for. You're 18 man, It's sweet to be a pilot at this age but you need to be 18 too. Trust these guys when they tell you to take it easy, slow down, and go meet girls, and go to COLLEGE. They are older than us, and are much more wise than we are, that's a fact of life.
A week ago you were saying you wanted to move to Florida just to instruct? Now look at you, so what, you got kicked in the nuts by failing a written test. It's good for ya, shows that you're not perfect, and none of us are. I know most of the comments on here have been blunt, but they're all the freaking truth. These guys will help you as much as they can, if you really want it. At this point though, it seems like you don't actually want their advice, just their pity. They won't give it here, not for this. They've all been through it, and they're probably pretty skeptical of most 18 year old commercial pilots. And by the way your responding to them you're just reinforcing that skepticism. There's a ton of good advice on this thread, you just need to read it with a calm, collected, non-18 year old mind. You asked for their advice, and they all gave you it... But that remark of being a great pilot gave them the fodder they needed and wanted to give you a taste of humility.
And I really want to reinforce the point of going to college.... Go live a little, get back on your feet and do what YOU think is right for YOU.
I appologize for any errors, it's one in the morning and I've been up since five.
Also: If you really want to be a CFI or further your career more, you're going to have to work at it, a lot more than it seems you have. Our generation seems to have an issue with putting an effort into things even if they get something back for it.
Most of us here have no problem at all with 18 year old pilots. Most of us have problems with pilots of any age who choose to rationalize instead of improve when their skills don't match up with the image they have of themselves. That's why C310's threads didn't turn sour until he made it clear he was looking for a cheering section instead of advice.
Part of the reason he's getting this reaction is that the attitude is not something that magically stops when you hit 25. We've all worked with somebody who thinks and acts this way. The last one I dealt with was 67. It never goes well for anyone involved - least of all, the guy with the attitude. Wising up is a choice, and the sooner you make it, the better off you'll be.
Well I've seen it time and time again. People that have only CFI'd at 135 vs people that flew the line doing something. No comparison. Not even remotely close. The CFI's by and large(not all) can't fly even close to those that have been 135 or challenging 91 for the last 1000 hours. Honestly, it's not even funny. They're straight scared of things that should be normal daily operations.
FWIW - getting the CFI proved very positive for me; had a good base of experience as a pilot and aircraft manager, but then the company tanked and the planes went away leaving me high and dry.
Got the CFI, started teaching and little by little other doors opened, such as flying for a small charter outfit in a jet, then some part 91 turboprop, now managing a C340 and the latest will be mentoring a guy in a C414A as well as flying it on business trips.
One thing I've learned - the more I fly, the more I realize I know so little!
Aviation is so complex and there are many nasty surprizes. Getting the CFI or any other rating shows a willingness to learn and expand the understanding of this industry.
Its up to the individual at the end of the day - but one thing is for certain, by not getting the CFI that's a revenue stream that will be unavailable and which, at some point, may be necessary! (Ask me how I know this!)
This is just an add-on question for guys who already have the CFI...
Did you ever wonder how on earth you could soak in all that knowledge and finish the rating? I did the bulk of my training in 2010-2011 after leaving the military and haven't done much flying since last summer (maybe 30-50 hours) and I'm currently finishing up my Comm-SEL addon. Looking forward at CFI prep, it seems awfully daunting. I feel like I've forgotten so much/nervous about teaching. Is that normal? Do I need to just suck it up and continue down the CFI road or look elsewhere if I'm slightly uneasy about it.
I remember thinking the same thing. "how do they expect me to know how to teach when I have no experience?" Getting your cfi is mostly a review of your knowledge. IMO, quality instruction will happen with a good syllabus and an instructor who wants to do a good job and puts in the effort. Make a cfi binder, and start with a good outline. Some people use the pts, but I prefer the afh and handbook of aeronautical knowledge. Go chapter by chapter and organize the info into a logical sequence for teaching. After you pass the writtens, you can do most of the work by yourself at home. The flying portion should mostly be practicing flying from the right seat and talking at the same time. It shouldn't cost very much.
Don't become a CFI for just getting the rating. Do it because you want to teach others the art of aviation. If not you'll be a disgrunted fellow pilot working as a CFI just to build hours instead of experience................
You can suck it up and get it done if you're the kind of person that succeeds.
Otherwise you can move on to something less challenging.
The path you choose will reveal a part of your character.
I don't exactly mean to put this in such stark terms, but in many ways, I feel that there are people in life that do, and those in life that complain. The kind of person that you want to be is up to you.
To the OP, please don't get your CFI or your ATP for that matter. Then there will be one less person in competition for the professional flying jobs that are out there. Pilot shortage here we come! [/sarcasm]
I, too, thought that teaching was not for me, but it was a requirement for my degree. I did the CFI and CFII and later the MEI. I turned out to be a pretty descent instructor and built a little time along the way. I have spent all 15 years of my career so far in general aviation (91, 91k, and 135). Every single job that I have, I have used my CFI either directly or indirectly for the position that I held. As other have mentioned, I was also able to use it to support myself when I lost my job 2 years ago. I did some contract flying but the bulk of the money that I lived on for a year was flight instructing in piston singles and twins.
Not to offend, but that is spoken like someone who is definitely not a CFI.
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