Airport as a waypoint?

Murdoughnut · November 2nd, 2009, 16:56

This may be a dumb question, but can I use an airport as a waypoint in my route of flight when filing IFR /G?

Mike H · November 2nd, 2009, 18:18

Are you going to land there? If not, maybe better to not make it a waypoint. Otherwise the FAA's HAL9000 might decide for you.

Murdonught: "Cancel the waypoint, Hal"

ATC: "I'm afraid I can't do that"

Murdonught: "Cancel the waypoint Hal!"

ATC: " I'm sorry, I can't do that. Why don't you take a stress pill and get some rest?"

dc3flyer · November 2nd, 2009, 19:06

Is there some reason you want to fly over the airport?????

I have never used an airport as a waypoint, can't say for sure that you can't though.

TFaudree_ERAU · November 2nd, 2009, 20:06

I have never filed a flight plan with an airport as a waypoint. We have, however been given a routing via an airport for weather avoidance.

"Cleared direct Manteo Regional, direct Norfolk"

On second thought, this was with Oceana Approach, who doesn't know the difference between a C172 and B737.

Murdoughnut · November 2nd, 2009, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc3flyer

Is there some reason you want to fly over the airport?????

I have never used an airport as a waypoint, can't say for sure that you can't though.

No, I'm heading up to Panama City from Tampa - there are to victor airways that head up that way - one is too far out to sea, and one is a bit too far inland to be efficient. No good fixes in the area to make a more efficient route - so I was wondering if I could file Crystal River as a waypoint - but I guess I'll just take the longer route.

Roger, Roger · November 2nd, 2009, 20:26

Sure you can. ATC may or may not give it to you, but if you want to do it, give it a try. Just make sure to enter the airport in your flight plan as KXXX not just XXX, otherwise ATC might think you're trying to go to some VOR in the middle of nowhere.

dc3flyer · November 2nd, 2009, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

No, I'm heading up to Panama City from Tampa - there are to victor airways that head up that way - one is too far out to sea, and one is a bit too far inland to be efficient. No good fixes in the area to make a more efficient route - so I was wondering if I could file Crystal River as a waypoint - but I guess I'll just take the longer route.

Just try to file direct.

fltplan.com says recently planned ATC routes between KTPA and KPFN are direct ENDED direct HEVVN direct. Is that too far out to sea for you?

ClearedToTakeoff · November 3rd, 2009, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike H

Are you going to land there? If not, maybe better to not make it a waypoint. Otherwise the FAA's HAL9000 might decide for you.

Murdonught: "Cancel the waypoint, Hal"

ATC: "I'm afraid I can't do that"

Murdonught: "Cancel the waypoint Hal!"

ATC: " I'm sorry, I can't do that. Why don't you take a stress pill and get some rest?"

Murdoughnut · November 3rd, 2009, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc3flyer

Just try to file direct.

fltplan.com says recently planned ATC routes between KTPA and KPFN are direct ENDED direct HEVVN direct. Is that too far out to sea for you?

Yeah, I checked and although that routing is far more efficient, it's beyond glide distance. Now that I look at it, the inland route isn't that much further than filing the airport as a fix. I'll probably just do that.

Interesting that so many filed HEVVN and direct, as that would take you through the MOAs there. Do they just redirect you if they're hot? How does that work? The hours listed for the MOA say "by NOTAM". Where do you find MOA activity notams?

drunkenbeagle · November 3rd, 2009, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

Interesting that so many filed HEVVN and direct, as that would take you through the MOAs there. Do they just redirect you if they're hot? How does that work? The hours listed for the MOA say "by NOTAM". Where do you find MOA activity notams?

ATC can clear you through a MOA if you are IFR. Even if it is active, as long as they can provide separation, they can clear you through it. You can always go through a MOA if you are VFR, just keep your eyes open

If you want to know when they will be active, call the controlling agency (under the table special use airspace on sectional and enroute charts). For almost all of the MOAs in coastal FL, that will be either Miami or Jax Center, or FSS.

tgrayson · November 3rd, 2009, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

No good fixes in the area to make a more efficient route

Make up your own fix, using radial/distance from a VOR. You can file that.

Douglas · November 3rd, 2009, 13:54

Sure can.
They may ask you if you will be doing a T&G there like a student pilot!

drunkenbeagle · November 3rd, 2009, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murdoughnut

This may be a dumb question, but can I use an airport as a waypoint in my route of flight when filing IFR /G?

Don't. ATC is going to assume you are landing there.

Direct ENDED direct HEVVN is what I would do, or just direct.

Roger, Roger · November 3rd, 2009, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

Don't. ATC is going to assume you are landing there.

Not in my experience. I've had students file multiple airports in one IFR flight plan before and we always had to let ATC know that we wanted to land.

shdw · November 4th, 2009, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

Don't. ATC is going to assume you are landing there.

Mine either, though limited only to my training as I am not a II yet. If you were nervous about this though you could put it in the remarks, "not landing at XXX."

Correct me if I am wrong you II gurus, but can't you file pretty much anything you want. Whether you will get it or not is a different story, but I don't recall restrictions to what you can and can't file. I remember priorities for TEC's and other preferred routes.

drunkenbeagle · November 4th, 2009, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by shdw

Correct me if I am wrong you II gurus, but can't you file pretty much anything you want. Whether you will get it or not is a different story,

I guess you can try, but you might as well try to file what you think you will ultimately get. Less to write down when you are copying your clearance.

I'm not a II though either. My CFII's opinion was that ICAO airport codes don't ever belong in the route section of a flight plan - we would file multiple flight plans back-to-back in that case.

shdw · November 5th, 2009, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunkenbeagle

My CFII's opinion was that ICAO airport codes don't ever belong in the route section of a flight plan - we would file multiple flight plans back-to-back in that case.

How does your II propose a round robin flight if you can't put an airport code in the route section?

For anyone who doesn't know, this is a single flight plan where the route section includes multiple airports of intended landing with a return to the original airport. It is common, at least was for us, for approach practice where we filed for 3 or 4 airports with remarks to practice approaches at each.

drunkenbeagle · November 5th, 2009, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by shdw

How does your II propose a round robin flight if you can't put an airport code in the route section?

I just filed multiple flight plans. Or in the remarks section, "Multiple Low Approaches @ KXZY" or "T&G @ KABC" or something like that.

Bernoulli Fan · November 13th, 2009, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger, Roger

Sure you can. ATC may or may not give it to you, but if you want to do it, give it a try. Just make sure to enter the airport in your flight plan as KXXX not just XXX, otherwise ATC might think you're trying to go to some VOR in the middle of nowhere.

DUATS automatically replaces KXXX with XXX for waypoints in the ROUTE section. Or maybe someone can tell me how to get it not to do that.

November 2nd, 2009, 16:56	#1
Murdoughnut Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 5,510	Airport as a waypoint? This may be a dumb question, but can I use an airport as a waypoint in my route of flight when filing IFR /G? __________________ Check out my fledgling photography blog ... http://bluesideupphotos.blogspot.com/

November 2nd, 2009, 18:18	#2
Mike H Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 242	Re: Airport as a waypoint? Are you going to land there? If not, maybe better to not make it a waypoint. Otherwise the FAA's HAL9000 might decide for you. Murdonught: "Cancel the waypoint, Hal" ATC: "I'm afraid I can't do that" Murdonught: "Cancel the waypoint Hal!" ATC: " I'm sorry, I can't do that. Why don't you take a stress pill and get some rest?" __________________ TT: 450 M-E: 35 C.A.S.E.L.& C.A.M.E.L, Instrument Airplane

November 2nd, 2009, 19:06	#3
dc3flyer Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 1,548	Re: Airport as a waypoint? Is there some reason you want to fly over the airport????? I have never used an airport as a waypoint, can't say for sure that you can't though. __________________ Paid to wait.... Fly for fun!

November 2nd, 2009, 20:06	#4
TFaudree_ERAU Old Skool Join Date: May 2006 Location: Virginia is for Lovers, yacht chasing on the weekends Posts: 2,949	Re: Airport as a waypoint? I have never filed a flight plan with an airport as a waypoint. We have, however been given a routing via an airport for weather avoidance. "Cleared direct Manteo Regional, direct Norfolk" On second thought, this was with Oceana Approach, who doesn't know the difference between a C172 and B737.

November 2nd, 2009, 20:26	#6
Roger, Roger Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lone Star Executive Posts: 2,648	Re: Airport as a waypoint? Sure you can. ATC may or may not give it to you, but if you want to do it, give it a try. Just make sure to enter the airport in your flight plan as KXXX not just XXX, otherwise ATC might think you're trying to go to some VOR in the middle of nowhere. __________________ Current A&P. Occasional CFI. Still wannabe Freight Dog.

November 3rd, 2009, 13:54	#12
Douglas Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Good Life. Posts: 2,261	Re: Airport as a waypoint? Sure can. They may ask you if you will be doing a T&G there like a student pilot! __________________ EYE/ Double EYE/ Multi EYE/ GOLDEN-EYE Instructor---> Full Time Charter pilot-> Part Time Legend-----> Spare Time. Student pilot guide

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