IPC in lieu of Approaches/tracking/holding

[juxtapilot]

To maintain the 6 month IFR currency, can an IPC done in lieu of the 6 approaches, tracking and holding? Or do 6 approaches always have to be done?

Let's say there's a pilot who is still current, with 30 days left of IFR currency. If this pilot does an IPC will his currency "clock" restart? Or would that pilot still need th 6 approaches etc. to be current?

[jhugz]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

To maintain the 6 month IFR currency, can an IPC done in lieu of the 6 approaches, tracking and holding? Or do 6 approaches always have to be done?

Let's say there's a pilot who is still current, with 30 days left of IFR currency. If this pilot does an IPC will his currency "clock" restart? Or would that pilot still need th 6 approaches etc. to be current?

I won't sign someone off for an IPC unless we have at least done the currency requirements. I'll do some digging.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

To maintain the 6 month IFR currency, can an IPC done in lieu of the 6 approaches, tracking and holding? Or do 6 approaches always have to be done?

Let's say there's a pilot who is still current, with 30 days left of IFR currency. If this pilot does an IPC will his currency "clock" restart? Or would that pilot still need th 6 approaches etc. to be current?

Depends on how many approaches the pilot needs to have 6 approaches over a six month time period. If all six previous approaches were 5 months ago, he'll probably need to do all 6 approaches, plus a hold. If the approaches were spread out over the last 5 months, all he needs to do is enough approaches to amount to 6 in 6 months. A pilot could, conceivably, stay current by doing just one approach a month for as long as he wants. The "clock" resets with each approach.

After 6 months of lapsed currency, the pilot can get current again by doing the required approaches (& hold) with a safety pilot. An IPC is only required if currency has lapsed for 12 months

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by jhugz

I won't sign someone off for an IPC unless we have at least done the currency requirements. I'll do some digging.

Well, in theory an IPC could include only 2 approaches and holding/intercepting track. Just needs a non-precision and precision approach, and circling and missed approach, and a landing from either straight in or circling approach.

So, you could do the bare minimum of an ILS-Missed, a hold, a non-precision circle to land. But I don't know for sure that it would satisfy the 6 month currency.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

To maintain the 6 month IFR currency, can an IPC done in lieu of the 6 approaches, tracking and holding? Or do 6 approaches always have to be done?

According to the old Part 61 FAQs:

QUESTION: A question has arisen about the “6 in 6” rule and the IPC as they relate to pilots out of currency for more than 6 months. Paragraph (d) says such pilots may not act as PIC under IFR until they get an IPC. However, the way it is worded, one might conclude that the pilot must also achieve the 6 approaches/intercept/track/hold criteria in paragraph (c) before he can be PIC under IFR -- that the IPC is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for returning to currency after more than 6 months out of currency. So, is a successful IPC sufficient for IFR currency regardless of the number of approaches completed in the last 6 months? Does this change if you are out of the 6-months-without-currency grace period?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.57(d); An instrument proficiency check (IPC) conducted in accordance with the § 61.57(d)/ Instrument Rating PTS meets all the requirements to “start the clock” over for remaining instrument rated current. Passing an IPC fulfills the requirement for currency.

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Depends on how many approaches the pilot needs to have 6 approaches over a six month time period. If all six previous approaches were 5 months ago, he'll probably need to do all 6 approaches, plus a hold. If the approaches were spread out over the last 5 months, all he needs to do is enough approaches to amount to 6 in 6 months. A pilot could, conceivably, stay current by doing just one approach a month for as long as he wants. The "clock" resets with each approach.

After 6 months of lapsed currency, the pilot can get current again by doing the required approaches (& hold) with a safety pilot. An IPC is only required if currency has lapsed for 12 months

So a pilot who only does an IPC every 6 months is not actually current correct?

§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
...
(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command under IFR or weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR only if:

(1) Use of an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship for maintaining instrument experience. Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performed and logged at least the following tasks and iterations in an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship, as appropriate, for the instrument rating privileges to be maintained in actual weather conditions, or under simulated conditions using a view-limiting device that involves having performed the following—

(i) Six instrument approaches.

(ii) Holding procedures and tasks.

(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigational electronic systems.
...
(d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the 12 calendar months preceding the month of the flight may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until having passed an instrument proficiency check that consists of the areas of operation and instrument tasks required in the instrument rating practical test standards.

So in order to meet the requirements of section c, you must meet the requirements in section d if applicable...?

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by tgrayson

According to the old Part 61 FAQs:

QUESTION: A question has arisen about the “6 in 6” rule and the IPC as they relate to pilots out of currency for more than 6 months. Paragraph (d) says such pilots may not act as PIC under IFR until they get an IPC. However, the way it is worded, one might conclude that the pilot must also achieve the 6 approaches/intercept/track/hold criteria in paragraph (c) before he can be PIC under IFR -- that the IPC is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for returning to currency after more than 6 months out of currency. So, is a successful IPC sufficient for IFR currency regardless of the number of approaches completed in the last 6 months? Does this change if you are out of the 6-months-without-currency grace period?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.57(d); An instrument proficiency check (IPC) conducted in accordance with the § 61.57(d)/ Instrument Rating PTS meets all the requirements to “start the clock” over for remaining instrument rated current. Passing an IPC fulfills the requirement for currency.

Of course it does. Too bad that with some the recent changes to Part 61 that did nothing more than try to make a regs cleare they didn't hit this one

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

So a pilot who only does an IPC every 6 months is not actually current correct?

Of course he'd be current. Is there some part of an IPC not being REQUIRED unless currency has lapsed for 12 months you don't get? You could do an IPC every month for currency reasons if you wanted, but why would you?

Well, in theory an IPC could include only 2 approaches and holding/intercepting track. Just needs a non-precision and precision approach, and circling and missed approach, and a landing from either straight in or circling approach.

So, you could do the bare minimum of an ILS-Missed, a hold, a non-precision circle to land. But I don't know for sure that it would satisfy the 6 month currency.

It's already been established that a IPC "resets the clock" on currency, however, do you really, honestly think you could go 6 months without flying an approach and still be proficient enough to PASS the IPC minumum requirements? In theory, ain't likely.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Of course he'd be current. Is there some part of an IPC not being REQUIRED unless currency has lapsed for 12 months you don't get? You could do an IPC every month for currency reasons if you wanted, but why would you?

For currency, some people choose IPCs where they are tested by a CFI on the tasks required by the PTS instead of flying the same old approach to the home base over and over.

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

For currency, some people choose IPCs where they are tested by a CFI on the tasks required by the PTS instead of flying the same old approach to the home base over and over.

There isn't that much required in the PTS for the IPC anyway. So would an IPC really be more beneficial than having more approaches? Quantity vs. Quality.. which is better?

[USMCmech]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

There isn't that much required in the PTS for the IPC anyway. So would an IPC really be more beneficial than having more approaches? Quantity vs. Quality.. which is better?

The difference would be that someone is grading your performance and/or throwing curveballs at you.

vs, simply starting the ILS at your home base when weather is a little cloudy and breaking out at 1000 ft.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

There isn't that much required in the PTS for the IPC anyway. So would an IPC really be more beneficial than having more approaches? Quantity vs. Quality.. which is better?

I think there is much more required for the IPC. The minimum requirement for currency by approaches is watching the autopilot fly 6 identical ILS approaches to the airport you've memorized.

OTOH the minimum requirements for an IPC, while they involve less numbers of approaches include such things as unusual attitude recovery, 2 non-precision approaches (including one with partial panel)...

...even without a CFI tossing in a curveball now and then.

Sure there are those who will have enough self-discipline to do more than the minimum when practicing. That's why there's a choice.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

I think there is much more required for the IPC. The minimum requirement for currency by approaches is watching the autopilot fly 6 identical ILS approaches to the airport you've memorized.

OTOH the minimum requirements for an IPC, while they involve less numbers of approaches include such things as unusual attitude recovery, 2 non-precision approaches (including one with partial panel)...

...even without a CFI tossing in a curveball now and then.

Sure there are those who will have enough self-discipline to do more than the minimum when practicing. That's why there's a choice.

I prefer the IPC over the "66HIT". I'd rather be graded and have that added curveball here and there in addition to keeping those partial panel skills polished up.

[Blip16]

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Well, in theory an IPC could include only 2 approaches and holding/intercepting track. Just needs a non-precision and precision approach, and circling and missed approach, and a landing from either straight in or circling approach.

So, you could do the bare minimum of an ILS-Missed, a hold, a non-precision circle to land. But I don't know for sure that it would satisfy the 6 month currency.

and partial panel