When do you include the "November" prefix in your call sign?

[Alchemy]

I have question about a small incosistency I've noticed among pilots and controllers. Sometimes pilots use their full call sign, including the November prefix, on inital call up to approach or ground or when being handed off to another controller. Sometimes the controller will read back the full call sign with "november" (even if you didn't include it in your call up), other times they will read back the full call sign minus the november, and at other they will just read back the last three letters.

I realize the last three letters is done to save time when there are no aircraft with a similair callsign on frequency, but are there any rules in the AIM or elsewhere that say when you should and shouldn't include the "november" in your call sign?

Personally, I almost never include November. The only time I do it is when I'm on the phone with the FSS, getting a weather briefing or filing a flight plan. With ATC I just omit it.

[FL270]

On initial contact with any ATC facility, you should issue your full call sign. Example: November One Two Three Alpha Bravo. You may replace the "N" with your type designator, though. Example: Citation One Two Three Alpha Bravo. These may be used interchangably. At your and at ATC's discretion, in the absence of similar-sounding call signs (of which ATC is supposed to advise you), you may use the abbreviated version (Three Alpha Bravo) on all subsequent communications on the same frequency. Of course, individual preferences and styles creep in to the picture as well.

As an ATC minor in college who has read FAAH 7110.65 (the ATC Bible), I can assure you that much of what happens on the radios is not strictly "by-the-book".

Russ

[Alchemy]

Ahhh, so if you say your aircraft type (cessna, seneca, gulfstream, etc), you can omit the N. Never realized that, thanks!

[RiddlePilot]

Good info.

I had an instructor once get all mad every time I didn't use "Cessna November blah blah blah." I'd do it just to appease him, but it never felt quite right.

[pscraig]

I've also found that including the designator can save some radio congestion. For example, if I call ground with "November 123 alpha tango ready to taxi with Bravo" it is inevitably followed by "November 123 alpha tango say type aircraft." If I call ground with "Seminole 123 alpha tango ready to taxi with Bravo" I am given a clearance immediately.

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
I've also found that including the designator can save some radio congestion. For example, if I call ground with "November 123 alpha tango ready to taxi with Bravo" it is inevitably followed by "November 123 alpha tango say type aircraft." If I call ground with "Seminole 123 alpha tango ready to taxi with Bravo" I am given a clearance immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I just file IFR....that "report type of aircraft stuff" is silly...lol.

[pscraig]

Kind of a pain to file IFR just for local training flights!

[kellwolf]

And you STILL sometimes get the "say type a/c." Happened all the time when we would file our practice approaches in the area.

[Mr_Creepy]

Technically the N is supposed to be on every call sign. If you hear a controller using it on every call, be alert! There is probably an FAA ATC Inspector standing right next to the radio.

You can say both the type and the N as well, "Cessna November 95129 ready to taxi ..." etc.

[Windchill]

I believe during my travels, I will hear aircraft talking to approach and make up their own words to correspond with letters opposed to the standard alpha, bravo, charlie, etc.

Anyone else here this, is it prevelant, to what degree would/does ATC care and could one get in trouble for it?

[raysalmon]

[ QUOTE ]
Technically the N is supposed to be on every call sign. If you hear a controller using it on every call, be alert! There is probably an FAA ATC Inspector standing right next to the radio.

You can say both the type and the N as well, "Cessna November 95129 ready to taxi ..." etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aim Para 4-2-4 a3: Civil aircraft pilots shoud state the airctaft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits / letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix 'N' is dropped e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.

Most times I have found that ATC will use N instead of the type when calling me because that's what is on the top of their datatag. Especially when they're busy, they don't want to have to look at your type designator, figure out what it is, then look up at your N number and read everything but the N, then give you an instruction. Much easier just to look at the top row of the datatag and read it, followed by the instruction. Those controllers who pride themselves in knowing the different aircraft and are not very busy, will take the time to call you your type. Some times, they're so proud of themselves they'll even do one better than you. I fly a Cessna 414A, and I always just use "Twin Cessna" for the type. Some really sharp controllers will come back with "Chancellor" which is the actual type, but most contollers are not that interested or do not have the time to get into such pleasantries.

Ray

[Mr_Creepy]

Remember that the AIM is not regulatory, where as the FAA 8400 document is. The controllers are requried by 8400 to say the November on every call. It is dropped by convention, but not by regulation.

[FalconCapt]

When flying internationally, we use the November call sign religously...

"Ho-Chi-Mihn Control, Falcon November One Fife Niner Alpha Bravo"...

Many times Internationally you are not talking to a Controller but just a Radio Operator, this usually occurs when you are out of radar contact...

"Manaus Radio, Falcon November One Fife Niner Alpha Bravo"...

Accuracy, clarity and brevity are of the utmost importance...