AFM vs. POH

[Alchemy]

I'm wondering if there are any differences between POH's and AFM's other than the fact that AFM's are for planes manufactured after 1978 and POH's are for planes prior to that. Are there any regulatory or content differences between these two documents?

[Jeff_S_KDTW]

Whoops, misunderstood your question.

[MidlifeFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering if there are any differences between POH's and AFM's other than the fact that AFM's are for planes manufactured after 1978 and POH's are for planes prior to that. Are there any regulatory or content differences between these two documents?

[/ QUOTE ]That's funny. The manual for the 2002 Cessna 172 clearly says "Pilot's Operating Handbook" on it.

The "Airplane Flight Manual' - AFM is a regulatory creature. See FAR 23.1581. POH is what some manufacturers call their manuals.

Jeff, I don't think Alchemy was asking about PIMs.

[Looking4Lower]

I think a POH is serial-number specific to a particular airplane. It's the same content, but it "goes with the particular plane" and it should have the plane's S/N printed on the first page.

If I remember right (been a few years since I've dealt with this), getting a basic AFM is cheap, but replacing an official POH costs a bunch more $$ and needs to be done thru the manufacturer.

I'm not 100% sure about that, but I'll check on it cuz it's got me thinking now.

[Jeff_S_KDTW]

Looking4lower-

You read the initial post the same way I did; however, as Midlife pointed out, he may not be talking about the Pilot Information Manual.

[RiddlePilot]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering if there are any differences between POH's and AFM's other than the fact that AFM's are for planes manufactured after 1978 and POH's are for planes prior to that. Are there any regulatory or content differences between these two documents?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I understand, POHs from aircraft built prior to 1978 do not have to be onboard the aircraft. Only on aircraft built after 1978 does the AFM have to be onboard.

I think!

[Looking4Lower]

I was a bit off-base on my previous post...

I've perused FAR 91.9 and FAR 21.5, plus this article was helpful: http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/2...ttern0205.html

A current AFM is required for planes made after March 1, 1979. For planes made prior to that, you still need something onboard the plane, whether a current AFM or "approved manual material, markings and placards, or any combination thereof" (FAR 91.9). I think "approved manual material" can technically be a generic POH?

Still a little unclear to me.

[Alchemy]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

From what it looks like, the AFM is something that is required to be containted within the POH after March 1, 1979. Before that date, you simply needed a POH and weather or not it had an AFM was irrelevant. I don't know what a PIM is at all, please elaborate as I am curious to find out!

[Jeff_S_KDTW]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what a PIM is at all, please elaborate as I am curious to find out!

[/ QUOTE ]The PIM is the Pilot Information Manual, which is essentially a derivative of the POH. The PIM is sold for a specific model and/or year of an aircraft (i.e. Cessna 172R), but is not specific to a particular serial number. It normally includes everything in the POH; however, the PIM is not updateable nor does it include the "exact" W&B information.

In other words, it's usually the generic operating handbook that we got when we were first training--used for general reference.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Looking4Lower: Does this reply also help with your question about whether you can use a generic manual if there is no official AFM?

[ QUOTE ]
From what I understand, POHs from aircraft built prior to 1978 do not have to be onboard the aircraft. Only on aircraft built after 1978 does the AFM have to be onboard.

I think!

[/ QUOTE ]A lot of people join you in your thinking, but it's not really correct. The change in 1978 was that, for the first time, a manual became a required piece of equipment for =all= aircraft.

Before that, you will find plenty airplanes in which a manual was a required piece of equipment. And, under 91.213, all required equipment needs to be on board.

In addition, whether one was required or not, if the airplane has a manual, it has to be on board (unless there are placards, etc that cover all of the information)

Take a look at 91.9:

==============================
91.9
(b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft -
(1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by § 21.5 of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in § 121.141(b); and
(2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by § 21.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof.
==============================
(21.5 is the reg that has the 1978 date)

If the airplane is required to have one, it has to be there. If the airplane isn't required to have one, it (or a combination of information that does the same thing) has to be there

[Looking4Lower]

Midlifeflyer:

Good post - that's my understanding about the whole thing.

The thing about the reg that makes things a bit interesting: the whole "any combination thereof" and "manual material" thing seems like a grey area that could be open to interpretation for some people who choose to carry something less than an actual manual in an older airplane that didn't specifically require one.

BTW, where is everybody getting the 1978 date from? I found 1979...did I miss something?

[MidlifeFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing about the reg that makes things a bit interesting: the whole "any combination thereof" and "manual material" thing seems like a grey area that could be open to interpretation for some people who choose to carry something less than an actual manual in an older airplane that didn't specifically require one.

[/ QUOTE ] The safest bet is, if the airplane has one, carry it.[ QUOTE ]
BTW, where is everybody getting the 1978 date from? I found 1979...did I miss something?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about anyone else, but in my case it's bad typing. You are correct. The date is March 1, 1979.