PIT 8 Departure

[sky7]

I'm not sure if this is tech talk- move it if it needs it.

Disclaimer: I'm enjoying a beer or ten so if my typing is a little slurred, just blame the micro breweries of Colorado.

Everybody get out your PIT 8 sid. I was in PIT recently and asked for clearance to DEN.

My clearance was : "Pittsburgh 8 squawk 1234". So I read back, "pit 8, then I assume as-filed, 1234."

The guy reading clearance proceded to go on and on about how the pit 8 is an "as-filed" clearance and basically read the plate to me. I understand the heading part and the altitude part, but to me, it seem like a vector sid. There is no connection between the pit8 heading (280) and our first filed waypiont, the Biggs VOR. In the event of lost comm, we would be on the 280 heading forever (legally, not practically).

If our clearance is just the pit8, then where is our legal clearance limit?

I am totally open to correction and instruction. Please enlighten me. I stared at that plate forever and couldn't agree with the clearnce guy. Usually vector sids have a lost-comm box. I didn't see one.

[400A]

The narrative tells you what to do, as far a clearance limit goes. It is a little vague, but you are told to climb to 1700 before proceeding on course. Then you are told to maintain your heading until vectored to the first fix. If you loose coms, at 1700 go to your first fix and then fly your route and apply lost com rules as needed. Your clearance limit is your destination since I imagine your clearance was "Cleared to ABC airport, PIT8, squawk 1234".

Keep in mind, controllers make mistakes too and if the "Cleared to ABC airport" was left out it was probably just a mistake.

[sky7]

I guess I just needed somebody else to notice that "it is a little vague" to justify my confusion. He also did leave out the " cleared to the Denver airport via" part. Even though it is obvious what our destination is, his sloppiness just added to the confusion. I won't complain though- I am the king of radio sloppiness. There really never was any confusion, I was just wondering about legal technicalities.

[Chris_Ford]

Doesn't the SID say "expect vectors to your first fix"

So let's just say you were going to..... Elwood City, which is the only VOR I can remember near PIT right now (115.8 I think?)

You go 7600, you just go direct EWC and flight planned route...

[sky7]

I understand going to the first fix, but doesn't that then become your clearance limit? I was never cleared "as-filed", and when I questioned it for clearification, I was told "the pitt 8 is an as-filed clearance". I also understand that the omission of the phrase "cleared to the Denver airport via.." was sloppy, but I'm cool with that. I know what he meant.

The pit 8 has a hard heading line (280) as opposed to a dashed heading line which is usualy accompanied by a lost-comm instruction box. Why was I wrong for thinking that the clearance should be DEN via the PIT8 and than as filed, squawk 1234. He was very sure that he did not have to say "as-filed". Is it hiding in the AIM somewhere atht "as filed" is implied?

Teach me. thanks

note: I don't care about this nearly as much as it may appear.

[sky7]

I'm a dork. I had just typed out a big slam on how I am right when I just noticed the "initial climb box" (ya know, the big one right in front of me) "climb heading 280 to 1700 before proceeding on course".

I was fixated on the "routing" box that is indeed , a little vague.

Sorry guys, I'm a dork. stupid regional pilots.