767 Destination Fuel. How Much?

[coa787]

Hey, everyone. I was wondering how do you figure out what the minimum fuel is that you will need at your destination for long range flights?

I believe that 15,000 pounds is the standard minimum operating fuel for the 767?

I know that the destination fuel varies between flights, but how?

Thanks in advance!

[Andrew_VT]

this post confuses me. Even after a whole bottle of wine it's not making any sense. are you like a 767 enthusiast?

[coa787]

Originally Posted by Andrew_VT

this post confuses me. Even after a whole bottle of wine it's not making any sense. are you like a 767 enthusiast?

Well, I usually make flights with the 767 in FS2004 when I have free time, like during extended breaks and holidays when I don't have school.

I try to make my flights as realistic as possible, so I will occasionally ask very technical questions that I can't find the answers to elsewhere.

Now, to answer you're question, I am a 767 enthusiast and a hard core simmer. The 767 was the very first airliner that I've ever flown on.

[Nick]

I think the question then, is:

"What amount of fuel does dispatch typically plan you to land with in the B-767."

[coa787]

Originally Posted by Nick

I think the question then, is:

"What amount of fuel does dispatch typically plan you to land with in the B-767."

Pretty much. I know that it varies between flights.

[BobDDuck]

Long haul stuff is probably a bit different, but in general your take off fuel is built up like this

BURN (amount your engines will use to get you there)
+ RESERVE (standard reserve amount... 45 minutes of fuel domestically)
+ ALT/MISSED (fuel needed to go missed and go to your MOST DISTANT alternate)
+ HOLD (fuel used to hold)
-----------------------------
TAKE OFF FUEL
+ TANKER (extra fuel carried for what ever reason)
+ TAXI
-----------------------------
RAMP FUEL

[Minuteman]

Originally Posted by Nick

I think the question then, is:

"What amount of fuel does dispatch typically plan you to land with in the B-767."

What kind of 767?

If everything goes as planned, 18k to 20k lbs.

[coa787]

Originally Posted by Minuteman

What kind of 767?

If everything goes as planned, 18k to 20k lbs.

767-300ER

[OldTownPilot]

All in 100's of pounds for a recent 767-400 flight from Europe.

Burn 971
Alt SWF 035
rsv 5 pct 045
rsv 30 min 050
cont 000
extra 030
taxi 013
Gate 1144

16000 lbs "over destination" 12500 lbs "over alternate"

The old man never throws away anything. Including flight plans.

[Doug Taylor]

I really have no idea. Seriously!

I'll check today.

I guess I should know that, shouldn't I?

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I really have no idea. Seriously!

I'll check today.

I guess I should know that, shouldn't I?

Oh I see, you are one of those FOs. "I don't have enough stripes to worry about that..."

I'm kidding about Dough, I'm sure he's really there, but a quick thing of note for all the newbies in the right seat, or guys who will be there one day...

DON'T JUST SIT IN THE SEAT AND WAIT YOUR TURN TO UPGRADE.

ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING THAT THE CAPTAIN IS DOING.

Sorry for the caps lock, but it's a point that needs to be made. My company had a close to 60% wash out rate of upgrading FOs at one point because these guys had spent 4 to 6 years sitting in the right seat, reading their company approved material and paying no attention what so ever to how to be a captain. They just assumed on day 3 of upgrade ground school somebody would come in and there would be an hour long lecture on "everything you need to know to be a captain" and they would be all set.

It doesn't work that way.

Just a little friendly advice.

[B767Driver]

Originally Posted by coa787

Hey, everyone. I was wondering how do you figure out what the minimum fuel is that you will need at your destination for long range flights?

I believe that 15,000 pounds is the standard minimum operating fuel for the 767?

I know that the destination fuel varies between flights, but how?

Thanks in advance!

A minimum of 7,100 lbs of fuel would be for an IFR flight without an alternate. That essentially leaves you 45 minutes of fuel.

All international flights require an alternate and some special fuel planning. Essentially you need fuel to, 1) fly to your destination, 2) fly to the most distant alternate, 3) add an additional 10% of your enroute fuel burn, and 4) enough to hold for 30 minutes above your destination airport for 30 minutes.

For a transatlantic flight this ends up being about 16,000 to 18,000 pounds of fuel upon landing at your destination.

[coa787]

Originally Posted by B767Driver

A minimum of 7,100 lbs of fuel would be for an IFR flight without an alternate. That essentially leaves you 45 minutes of fuel.

All international flights require an alternate and some special fuel planning. Essentially you need fuel to, 1) fly to your destination, 2) fly to the most distant alternate, 3) add an additional 10% of your enroute fuel burn, and 4) enough to hold for 30 minutes above your destination airport for 30 minutes.

For a transatlantic flight this ends up being about 16,000 to 18,000 pounds of fuel upon landing at your destination.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know! Thanks everyone for trying to help.

[rjmore]

We end up with usually 16,000Kg coming over from HKG in the 747-400. That's about 35,000 lbs......hack off two engines and you get around 17,000 pounds

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Oh I see, you are one of those FOs. "I don't have enough stripes to worry about that..."

I'm kidding about Dough, I'm sure he's really there, but a quick thing of note for all the newbies in the right seat, or guys who will be there one day...

DON'T JUST SIT IN THE SEAT AND WAIT YOUR TURN TO UPGRADE.

ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING THAT THE CAPTAIN IS DOING.

Sorry for the caps lock, but it's a point that needs to be made. My company had a close to 60% wash out rate of upgrading FOs at one point because these guys had spent 4 to 6 years sitting in the right seat, reading their company approved material and paying no attention what so ever to how to be a captain. They just assumed on day 3 of upgrade ground school somebody would come in and there would be an hour long lecture on "everything you need to know to be a captain" and they would be all set.

It doesn't work that way.

Just a little friendly advice.

And you're absolutely 100% correct. I did a quick review before launching out of CDG this morning and realized that I KNEW the number, but I just had forgotten it and couldn't remember it for quick reference.

My problem was complacency, largely because we have a crapload of fuel because of alternate requirements on the international side of the house.

[taseal]

I have a 767 fuel planner .exe if you want I can send u, its made for level D 767.

[DE727UPS]

"I really have no idea. Seriously!"

Not really a problem as it's a moving target. When I was an F/O, I pretty much went along with what the left seat had to say.

I'm just a domestic guy, but I'd like to see 10K on landing with no alternate. I admit I've gone below that in practice while enroute. Didn't give me the warm fuzzies but it wasn't worth diverting for, either.

The one that made me think was the 757, no alternate, into BIL. Had the typical 8K or so on landing, no alternate necessary. I got to thinking, where else would I go if someone disabled the runway while I was on short final. The crosswind runway is useless for a big jet. I remember going by Casper and thinking I could make it back there with what I had as I went by, but it's definitely food for thought. Something that I look at a little closer now.

[sorrygottarunway]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Oh I see, you are one of those FOs. "I don't have enough stripes to worry about that..."

I'm kidding about Dough, I'm sure he's really there, but a quick thing of note for all the newbies in the right seat, or guys who will be there one day...

DON'T JUST SIT IN THE SEAT AND WAIT YOUR TURN TO UPGRADE.

ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING THAT THE CAPTAIN IS DOING.

Sorry for the caps lock, but it's a point that needs to be made. My company had a close to 60% wash out rate of upgrading FOs at one point because these guys had spent 4 to 6 years sitting in the right seat, reading their company approved material and paying no attention what so ever to how to be a captain. They just assumed on day 3 of upgrade ground school somebody would come in and there would be an hour long lecture on "everything you need to know to be a captain" and they would be all set.

It doesn't work that way.

Just a little friendly advice.

I had an FO recently...


"Hey Brendan can I start an engine?"

"Why sure! But first tell me the starter limitations as well as the memory items for an aborted start."

"Ummmm, well I see you start it every day."

"Sorry, try again tomorrow."

[Chief Captain]

Huh?

Fo's don't need to know engine start limits?

[goredbirds]

Originally Posted by Chief Captain

Huh?

Fo's don't need to know engine start limits?

FO's are supposed to know engine start limits AND memory items. It doesn't mean they do, unfortunately. The fact that this particular FO didn't know an important limitation OR (perhaps more importantly) a memory item gives me the impression he needs to take his job a little more seriously...

I can understand if you only know the minimum SAT in cruise flight above FL 250 on check ride day, but limitations like airspeeds and starter limits that are relevant every day...