FAA to JAA

jelloy · February 28th, 2008, 01:02

Not sure if this is the right forum for this thread...but I recently was offered a potential position to fly for corporate air taxi service over in Europe, and i was wondering if anybody knew how hard or complicated it is transfer your FAA ratings to JAA standards.

granlistillo · February 28th, 2008, 01:50

1. working in Europe is problematic, if you dont have EU residency or citizenship. It depends on the country, maybe Ireland is easier than some others. In general, to get a permanent European contract you will either have to have the right to live and work throughout the EU or the company may have to prove to the government, their are no local hires capable of doing the job.
2. They're are a few jobs flying n registered aircraft in europe as well which solves the jaa problem. But there is still the contract issue.
3. Some jobs in Europe, typically the contract jobs may require only a 1 yr national validation of your FAA ticket. In other words, if you have a FAA category, class and type rating, they individual civil aviation authority may be able to validate this for you.
4. the conversion route is usually required and that can be very hard. Getting a private ticket is easy, but JAA ATP or commercial and instrument can be very difficult. First you must pass the 14 exams and that means about a year of distance learning ground school.
5. If you have 1500 hrs multi crew, in an aircraft greater than 66k pounds (30k kilograms mtow), you can self sign for the 14 exams, but they are still difficult. then you still have to convert your IR AND do a commercial skills test.
6. If you have a lot of heavy jet pic, time, I think you can convert with 2 test and a flight test.

Hard to believe you have been offered a job, without clarifying your eligibility. PM with more specifics and maybe I could steer you in the right direction.

Always Moving · February 28th, 2008, 04:02

Read in PPRUNE it has been discussed it thoroughly.

jelloy · February 28th, 2008, 11:03

Thanks for your help...I'll be PM'ing you when I try and figure out exactly what i need. I had a feeling this was going to be a pian.

What's PPRUNE?

Minuteman · February 28th, 2008, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always Moving

Read in PPRUNE it has been discussed it thoroughly.

Yeah, I'm curious myself. Got a link to one of those?

granlistillo · February 28th, 2008, 11:23

http://www.pprune.org/forums/
good old professional pilot rumor network.
a JAA land JC type forum.

but, again, not all those guys will give the straight gouge for a gringo wanting to come over to Europe. Remember their is a difference between conversion (a pain in the a$$) and a validation (easy to do, but hard to come by)

Pépé le Pilot · March 9th, 2008, 16:48

I have come across this problem myself. I trained in the US, got kicked out after 9/11. In 2001, I had to basically do it all over again. No way.
In 2005 or 2006, France has been sentenced by the EU for blatant violations of the reciprocity of licence by an ICAO member.
So it is now easier to convert licenses in EU.
If you are ATP, rated in a liner (say a 737) and have been for the last 2 years, the conversion is pretty straightforward.
If you hold say COMM INST AMEL, you loose the COMM and get a PVT AMEL, IFR has to be passed again, as the rules over here are different.
If you are PVT INST you keep both.
Flying a "N" registered aircraft operated like a FAR135 based say in France will require one of the two crewmembers to hold a JAA ATP. If the a/c is Part91 then FAA cards are fine, unless some bureaucrat decides it's not.
There are numerous litigations in France regarding the interpretation of the JAR OPS. They are lenghty, hard to fight, and always end up by the european court, since France consistently refuses to apply european regulations, which are above national laws. And then there's Dassault who is lobying as much as possible to keep Gulfstream out of here. I believe (could be wrong) it is about impossible to certify a Gulfstream in France...
Contract-wise, the company wishing to employ you must show proof that your job cannot be filled by a local. Wich goes to say that unless you'll be flying a SR71 or the Space Shuttle, it's impossible. Pretty much like in the US, our immigration laws are very close.

desertdog71 · March 9th, 2008, 19:52

They way he described it to me is that he would be working for a US company that is operating in Europe and I would think that the Aircraft would be US registered. I am not certain though.

I think what is needed to convert his Commercial SE/ME/I is more important that anything else. Not the difficulty of the job market.

February 28th, 2008, 01:02	#1
jelloy Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 20	FAA to JAA Not sure if this is the right forum for this thread...but I recently was offered a potential position to fly for corporate air taxi service over in Europe, and i was wondering if anybody knew how hard or complicated it is transfer your FAA ratings to JAA standards.

February 28th, 2008, 01:50	#2
granlistillo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Unfortunately not Hispania Posts: 308	Re: FAA to JAA 1. working in Europe is problematic, if you dont have EU residency or citizenship. It depends on the country, maybe Ireland is easier than some others. In general, to get a permanent European contract you will either have to have the right to live and work throughout the EU or the company may have to prove to the government, their are no local hires capable of doing the job. 2. They're are a few jobs flying n registered aircraft in europe as well which solves the jaa problem. But there is still the contract issue. 3. Some jobs in Europe, typically the contract jobs may require only a 1 yr national validation of your FAA ticket. In other words, if you have a FAA category, class and type rating, they individual civil aviation authority may be able to validate this for you. 4. the conversion route is usually required and that can be very hard. Getting a private ticket is easy, but JAA ATP or commercial and instrument can be very difficult. First you must pass the 14 exams and that means about a year of distance learning ground school. 5. If you have 1500 hrs multi crew, in an aircraft greater than 66k pounds (30k kilograms mtow), you can self sign for the 14 exams, but they are still difficult. then you still have to convert your IR AND do a commercial skills test. 6. If you have a lot of heavy jet pic, time, I think you can convert with 2 test and a flight test. Hard to believe you have been offered a job, without clarifying your eligibility. PM with more specifics and maybe I could steer you in the right direction.

February 28th, 2008, 04:02	#3
Always Moving Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 34	Re: FAA to JAA Read in PPRUNE it has been discussed it thoroughly.

February 28th, 2008, 11:03	#4
jelloy Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 20	Re: FAA to JAA Thanks for your help...I'll be PM'ing you when I try and figure out exactly what i need. I had a feeling this was going to be a pian. What's PPRUNE?

February 28th, 2008, 11:23	#6
granlistillo Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Unfortunately not Hispania Posts: 308	Re: FAA to JAA http://www.pprune.org/forums/ good old professional pilot rumor network. a JAA land JC type forum. but, again, not all those guys will give the straight gouge for a gringo wanting to come over to Europe. Remember their is a difference between conversion (a pain in the a$$) and a validation (easy to do, but hard to come by)

March 9th, 2008, 16:48	#7
Pépé le Pilot Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 40	Re: FAA to JAA I have come across this problem myself. I trained in the US, got kicked out after 9/11. In 2001, I had to basically do it all over again. No way. In 2005 or 2006, France has been sentenced by the EU for blatant violations of the reciprocity of licence by an ICAO member. So it is now easier to convert licenses in EU. If you are ATP, rated in a liner (say a 737) and have been for the last 2 years, the conversion is pretty straightforward. If you hold say COMM INST AMEL, you loose the COMM and get a PVT AMEL, IFR has to be passed again, as the rules over here are different. If you are PVT INST you keep both. Flying a "N" registered aircraft operated like a FAR135 based say in France will require one of the two crewmembers to hold a JAA ATP. If the a/c is Part91 then FAA cards are fine, unless some bureaucrat decides it's not. There are numerous litigations in France regarding the interpretation of the JAR OPS. They are lenghty, hard to fight, and always end up by the european court, since France consistently refuses to apply european regulations, which are above national laws. And then there's Dassault who is lobying as much as possible to keep Gulfstream out of here. I believe (could be wrong) it is about impossible to certify a Gulfstream in France... Contract-wise, the company wishing to employ you must show proof that your job cannot be filled by a local. Wich goes to say that unless you'll be flying a SR71 or the Space Shuttle, it's impossible. Pretty much like in the US, our immigration laws are very close. __________________ Chuck Norris is right behind you !

March 9th, 2008, 19:52	#8
desertdog71 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KIDP/KCNU Posts: 3,005	Re: FAA to JAA They way he described it to me is that he would be working for a US company that is operating in Europe and I would think that the Aircraft would be US registered. I am not certain though. I think what is needed to convert his Commercial SE/ME/I is more important that anything else. Not the difficulty of the job market. __________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar. Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same.

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