multi-engine control

say_speed · November 22nd, 2003, 08:55

Ok, has anybody here done a single engine take-off from brake release on a multi engine? I do not personaly know any light twin that has enough rudder authority to even keep the a/c on the runway... Any one knows an a/c that can do that?

NJA_Capt · November 22nd, 2003, 09:12

[ QUOTE ]
has anybody here done a single engine take-off from brake release on a multi engine? I do not personaly know any light twin that has enough rudder authority to even keep the a/c on the runway... Any one knows an a/c that can do that?

[/ QUOTE ]
FAR23 certificated aircraft are not required to able to take off single engine. FAR25 certificated aircraft only show they can continue with a failure above V1, not to acceleration to V1. To attempt one would qualify for 91.13.

A few years ago a fresh jet pilot couldn't get one of his engines started. He decided to takeoff with the good engine and light the other engine once he got the bad engine windmilling. Needless to say he and his passengers went off the other end of the runway. As a side note, most jet engines require 200+kts in order to "air" start.

C650CPT · November 22nd, 2003, 09:40

ONLY in a SIM. It was not part of the POI, but we were ahead of syllabus and I snuck one in while the IP wasn't watching, boredom breeds contempt. I would NEVER attemp one in real life.

ERAU_Intern · November 22nd, 2003, 09:46

DANGEROUS, and STOOPID!! That jet pilot who tried it must have never heard a word about safety in his life. Seriously, if you are curious about it, break out microsoft flight simulator and let-er-rip!

FL270 · November 23rd, 2003, 16:45

Like C-650, I did one in the simulator once, in the DC-9. Took off from a 12000' runway at slats/flaps 5 with one shut down, airplane rolled 12000', went off the end, and bounced another 3000' through the grass before we hit Vr. Instructor had us do it as an exercise to practice directional control for V1 cuts.

Under no circumstances would I ever attempt such a thing in any twin engine airplane.

The Falcon 50/900 three-engine airplanes are approved for two-engine ferry; I believe you shift the inop engine to the center position and go. Have never flown one, though, so that is hearsay.

FL270

say_speed · November 24th, 2003, 21:51

you braught a good point there, but I don't think that the falcon is approved for t/o with the center engine shut down...
Now I have heard that on the dc10, under certain wind conditions, crews used to shut the center one down in cruise and saved some fuel... Anybody knows if this is correct? I believe the air force did that a lot...
Maybe the falcons 3 engines have the same capability as well.
But I am glad to hear that not even a dc9 could do that (t/o on 1 engine), and I guess the crj could, at least in the sim...

viper548 · November 26th, 2003, 17:30

The Air Force trying to save fuel? Can't be true. I've flown on an empty C-5 from Spain to Mass, and the next day flew a different empty one from Mass back to Spain. This happens all the time and the C-5 burns 20-25K PPH.

FalconCapt · November 26th, 2003, 19:51

The Falcon 50 & 900 can be ferried with an engine inop.

There are no 3 or 4 engine planes that shut down an engine in flight to save fuel. That is a myth. In the Falcon 900EX if we shut down an engine in flight we burn just as much fuel getting to our destination as we would with 3 engines, but it takes us longer to get there.

FalconCapt · November 26th, 2003, 19:52

[ QUOTE ]
A few years ago a fresh jet pilot couldn't get one of his engines started. He decided to takeoff with the good engine and light the other engine once he got the bad engine windmilling. Needless to say he and his passengers went off the other end of the runway. As a side note, most jet engines require 200+kts in order to "air" start.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an Urban Legend...

NJA_Capt · November 27th, 2003, 18:43

[ QUOTE ]
This is an Urban Legend...

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, all true. The NTSB write up was published AIN a year or two ago.

November 22nd, 2003, 08:55	#1
say_speed Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 194	multi-engine control Ok, has anybody here done a single engine take-off from brake release on a multi engine? I do not personaly know any light twin that has enough rudder authority to even keep the a/c on the runway... Any one knows an a/c that can do that?

November 22nd, 2003, 09:12	#2
NJA_Capt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Low Earth Orbit Posts: 1,335	Re: multi-engine control [ QUOTE ] has anybody here done a single engine take-off from brake release on a multi engine? I do not personaly know any light twin that has enough rudder authority to even keep the a/c on the runway... Any one knows an a/c that can do that? [/ QUOTE ] FAR23 certificated aircraft are not required to able to take off single engine. FAR25 certificated aircraft only show they can continue with a failure above V1, not to acceleration to V1. To attempt one would qualify for 91.13. A few years ago a fresh jet pilot couldn't get one of his engines started. He decided to takeoff with the good engine and light the other engine once he got the bad engine windmilling. Needless to say he and his passengers went off the other end of the runway. As a side note, most jet engines require 200+kts in order to "air" start.

November 22nd, 2003, 09:40	#3
C650CPT Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Home Sweet Home! Posts: 957	Re: multi-engine control ONLY in a SIM. It was not part of the POI, but we were ahead of syllabus and I snuck one in while the IP wasn't watching, boredom breeds contempt. I would NEVER attemp one in real life.

November 22nd, 2003, 09:46	#4
ERAU_Intern Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Knoxville, Maryland Posts: 244	Re: multi-engine control DANGEROUS, and STOOPID!! That jet pilot who tried it must have never heard a word about safety in his life. Seriously, if you are curious about it, break out microsoft flight simulator and let-er-rip!

November 23rd, 2003, 16:45	#5
FL270 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,101	Re: multi-engine control Like C-650, I did one in the simulator once, in the DC-9. Took off from a 12000' runway at slats/flaps 5 with one shut down, airplane rolled 12000', went off the end, and bounced another 3000' through the grass before we hit Vr. Instructor had us do it as an exercise to practice directional control for V1 cuts. Under no circumstances would I ever attempt such a thing in any twin engine airplane. The Falcon 50/900 three-engine airplanes are approved for two-engine ferry; I believe you shift the inop engine to the center position and go. Have never flown one, though, so that is hearsay. FL270

November 24th, 2003, 21:51	#6
say_speed Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 194	Re: multi-engine control you braught a good point there, but I don't think that the falcon is approved for t/o with the center engine shut down... Now I have heard that on the dc10, under certain wind conditions, crews used to shut the center one down in cruise and saved some fuel... Anybody knows if this is correct? I believe the air force did that a lot... Maybe the falcons 3 engines have the same capability as well. But I am glad to hear that not even a dc9 could do that (t/o on 1 engine), and I guess the crj could, at least in the sim...

November 26th, 2003, 17:30	#7
viper548 Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 813	Re: multi-engine control The Air Force trying to save fuel? Can't be true. I've flown on an empty C-5 from Spain to Mass, and the next day flew a different empty one from Mass back to Spain. This happens all the time and the C-5 burns 20-25K PPH.

November 26th, 2003, 19:51	#8
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: multi-engine control The Falcon 50 & 900 can be ferried with an engine inop. There are no 3 or 4 engine planes that shut down an engine in flight to save fuel. That is a myth. In the Falcon 900EX if we shut down an engine in flight we burn just as much fuel getting to our destination as we would with 3 engines, but it takes us longer to get there.

November 26th, 2003, 19:52	#9
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: multi-engine control [ QUOTE ] A few years ago a fresh jet pilot couldn't get one of his engines started. He decided to takeoff with the good engine and light the other engine once he got the bad engine windmilling. Needless to say he and his passengers went off the other end of the runway. As a side note, most jet engines require 200+kts in order to "air" start. [/ QUOTE ] This is an Urban Legend...

November 27th, 2003, 18:43	#10
NJA_Capt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Low Earth Orbit Posts: 1,335	Re: multi-engine control [ QUOTE ] This is an Urban Legend... [/ QUOTE ] Nope, all true. The NTSB write up was published AIN a year or two ago.

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