ERJ-145 pilots, particularly XJet and COEx

[XJet72]

Hey guys and gals:

This question is directed to ERJ-145 drivers, in particular XJet and COEx.

I'm not a real pilot, I just "sim" one in flight-sim. Anywho, I fly the ERJ-135ER/LR, ERJ-145EP/LR/XR and have had something on my mind for the past couple days.

What speed do you guys normally climb at: I know a lot of variables are involved but some say they follow the 240/270/0.56M climb profile all the way up to FL350 and some say they use the 240/290/0.65M climb profile. Then I've heard some of the variables in-between.

If you ERJ drivers out there could let me know what you preference is regarding climb profile (each has their own), I would really appreciate it as it would help me in more fuel efficient and better route planning.

Thanks,
Fletcher R.

[BoilerPilot2007]

Nothing wrong with being realistic!

We use the 240/270/0.56M profile (which is automatic in the CLB mode). This works well leaving most airports.

However, leaving larger airports such as ORD, they like to see the speed increase through 10,000... and 270 wont do.. so we tend to use the VS mode and climb at the fastest speed possible, increasing the rate of climb once we're through 18k or so. Some airports, like to see altitude over airspeed though, so we'll climb at 210 until passing 8000 or so, and then accelerate.

So, it depends on many factors, including what ATC assigns/expects.

Sometimes in the CLB mode, it tends to chase the FD - which isn't fun. So VS works well most of the time.

Hope that works for ya.

[cime_sp]

Originally Posted by BoilerPilot2007

Nothing wrong with being realistic!

We use the 240/270/0.56M profile (which is automatic in the CLB mode). This works well leaving most airports.

However, leaving larger airports such as ORD, they like to see the speed increase through 10,000... and 270 wont do.. so we tend to use the VS mode and climb at the fastest speed possible, increasing the rate of climb once we're through 18k or so. Some airports, like to see altitude over airspeed though, so we'll climb at 210 until passing 8000 or so, and then accelerate.

So, it depends on many factors, including what ATC assigns/expects.

Sometimes in the CLB mode, it tends to chase the FD - which isn't fun. So VS works well most of the time.

Hope that works for ya.

.56!!!!! I knew you guys were slow but DAMN! That's a roadblock! Sounds more like a citation than an airliner.....(sarcasm)

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by cime_sp

.56!!!!! I knew you guys were slow but DAMN! That's a roadblock! Sounds more like a citation than an airliner.....(sarcasm)

Mother of god that is slow....What is your vertical speed?

[XJet72]

I knew this would happen I get all kinds of answers...but that's what I'm fishing for.

Ok, let me go a little deeper for you into what is running through my mind.

Here's the sit_chee_ation: A COEx ERJ-145LR

Engines: AE3007-A1P rated to 8169lbs thrust to ISA +19

50-Pax, approx. payload of: 11,313 lbs

Fuel Load: Approx. 8,000 lbs

OAT is: 16 degrees C.

Expected CRZ FL: 350

Now...what would you expect the performance to be, what speed would you shoot for IAS above 10,000ft before Mach-crossover?

ATC has no gripes (assuming)

The last time I was on a LR with the A1P engines it was a moderate day in IAH and a full flight and it just seemed like we were climbing for ever and the pitch of the plane was pretty steep so I figured the pilot was using 0.56M climb.

Also, something else I was curious about...What is your typical N1% at take-off. I know that varies as well but just your average?

...and what is your typical N1% at CRZ flight level? Once again, average...since there are variations of the AE3007 Engine.

I know I ask a lot here but I have the FeelThere ERJ-145LR for flight-sim and when I fly it, there seems to be a lot of discrepancies from what I get and what actual real world pilots tell me that I've talked to before.

All help, suggestions, comments, questions, etc... are appreciated and welcome.

Thanks again, you guys are awesome.
Fletcher R.

[Chris_Ford]

"We" in Evan's post = Eagle

My understanding is that ExpressJet does 240/290/.65 or 240/290/.60 in the XR.

As for N1s on takeoff, it varies on lots of things. Takeoff mode, ambient temperature, etc. Same thing for cruise. FADEC takes care of that, just set the power so you don't overspeed and you're fine.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by cime_sp

.56!!!!! I knew you guys were slow but DAMN! That's a roadblock! Sounds more like a citation than an airliner.....(sarcasm)

Hahaha...someone must be a 700 pilot!

[schoolio]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

My understanding is that ExpressJet does 240/290/.65 or 240/290/.60 in the XR.

That is correct (not withstanding staying below 200 when coming out of Class C/D airspace, going away from your destination on departure, or when expediting climb to get to altitude). Hey, you wanted real, right?

As for N1s on takeoff, it varies on lots of things. Takeoff mode, ambient temperature, etc. Same thing for cruise. FADEC takes care of that, just set the power so you don't overspeed and you're fine

To clarify, set the power in the detent for takeoff, then at cruise (or any intermediate altitude) set them so you don't overspeed the airplane. I know that's what he was trying to say.

Granted, I have no idea if there is a detent on the Feelthere ERJ Sim...

Anyway, the LR can be quite sluggish when heavy, and holding 290 won't always get you all the way to .65 (unless you want to climb at 200fpm). Throw in the increased weight mod (no extra power BTW), and you definitely won't do it. At the point where I can't hold 290 and at least 1000fpm, I usually just put it into VS mode and climb at 1000fpm. Not the most fuel efficient, I'm sure, but we're still climbing. That usually happens somewhere in the upper 20's. And just so you know, in the real plane, speed hold sucks. Mach hold is even worse. You better hope it's a calm day with a smooth ride all the way up.

(Before I left my last career, I was a flight-simmer for several years. It's no fun anymore when you do it for a living!)

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by schoolio

(Before I left my last career, I was a flight-simmer for several years. It's no fun anymore when you do it for a living!)

It still is for me . . . just as much fun as it used to, if not more!

[cime_sp]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Hahaha...someone must be a 700 pilot!

Yep....profile for us is 250/290/.74 with .80 cruise. Most people usually go faster though. Out of SYR today we did 250/310/.80 with .83 cruise at FL360. I can't believe you guys climb at .56!!!! Even the RJ200 which is notoriously underpowered does 250/290/.70 with .74 cruise.

[XJet72]

Originally Posted by schoolio

Anyway, the LR can be quite sluggish when heavy, and holding 290 won't always get you all the way to .65 (unless you want to climb at 200fpm). Throw in the increased weight mod (no extra power BTW), and you definitely won't do it. At the point where I can't hold 290 and at least 1000fpm, I usually just put it into VS mode and climb at 1000fpm. Not the most fuel efficient, I'm sure, but we're still climbing. That usually happens somewhere in the upper 20's. And just so you know, in the real plane, speed hold sucks. Mach hold is even worse. You better hope it's a calm day with a smooth ride all the way up.

That's what I get in my sim. The other day, I was flying the LR2 and had full fuel and pax and it was NOT going to get to 0.65M at 21,600 @ 290Kts, so that's what I did, switched to VS @1000fpm. I can't remember what my M# was but I know it wasn't 0.65M.

Thanks for that information, it just proves what I have set-up is pretty accurate.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by cime_sp

I can't believe you guys climb at .56!!!!

Numerous posts indicated that M.56 is not used; M.65 is, or .60 for the XR which has additional climb thrust.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

My understanding is that ExpressJet does 240/290/.65 or 240/290/.60 in the XR.

Hmm..

Dont you fly for ExpressJet?

[Baronman]

Hey there...I'll try to answer some CoEx questions given that I just got out of the plane an hour ago..

As far as takeoff as others mentioned, the big variables for the N1 speed that the FADEC sets are outside air temp, field elevation and what thrust rating takeoff we desire. You'll find that at higher outside temps, at higher field elevations and "TO" mode will all increase N1 speed.

At a sea level airport with 16 C in derated "ALT-TO" mode I think N1 would roughly be 84%. I think the fuel flow would be around 2800lbs/hr/engine.

At Denver in the summer, with "TO" mode you'd probably find N1 to be around 94%.

As others have said, at XJT/COEx we fly 240/290/.65 as the standard LR profile. You'd find that with the conditions you gave the plane would roughly climb at 2000-2500fpm up to 10,000. Then at 10 increasing to 290 knots the climb rate would be roughly 1000-1200fpm. The crossover from 290knots to .65 would be around FL220 and the climb rate will stay about the same, no problem going right up to FL370.

In "CLB" mode there will be a reduction in N1 following the thrust reduction after "ALT-TO" mode. The N1 will continue to rise as you climb, and by the time you're leveling at FL350 the N1 will be around 93%. At cruise (mid to high 30s) it will probably be around 89%-91% with fuel flows around 1200-1400lbs/hr/side. It will usually overspeed if you leave full cruise power in (in the detent) so usually it's just about 1-2% lower than the "CRZ" selection to maintain under the redline.