MSAs and Intermediate Fixes

SkyGirl · October 14th, 2003, 19:53

I am wondering if anyone has seen either of the following on any approach charts...If so, please share.

1) A chart without a MSA.

2) A chart with an intermediate approach fix.

Thanks.

Baronman · October 14th, 2003, 20:00

I think we have a wise guy (gal) here!

Be careful, the FAA goons are gonna come out of the shadows and get you for asking about intermediate approach fixes!! Just accept that they exist for the instrument written!!

SkyGirl · October 14th, 2003, 21:35

Sorry, but I was asking in all seriousness.

A friend and I were trying to find examples, but we came up short. Does this mean there are none? How disappointing.

EatSleepFly · October 15th, 2003, 06:56

[ QUOTE ]
2) A chart with an intermediate approach fix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at some "RNAV (GPS)" approaches. As far as I can remember, they are the only ones I've ever seen with Intermediate Fixes, although I'm sure there are probably others.

bluelake · October 16th, 2003, 08:32

I also asked about charts with no MSA's in an earlier post, but I dont think anyone knew of any.. still searching...

ananoman · October 16th, 2003, 20:35

Alot of the RNAV approaches have a TAA instead of a MSA.

RiddlePilot · October 17th, 2003, 05:05

Welp, I can find one with a TAA, and I can find one with an IF, but not one with both. I'm stumped.

As a side note, while I was paging through my jepps (yes, I really have nothing better to do), I stumbled across a pretty interesting approach. PAR/ASR Rwys 8, 26 down in Ft. Huachuca, AZ. Not something you see too often, especially seeing as how it doesn't have an MSA or TAA. I wonder if they'll let you do practice approaches?

SkyGirl · October 17th, 2003, 12:29

Thanks everyone for your help. Ill look into the charts you suggest.

MikeD · October 17th, 2003, 22:14

[ QUOTE ]
I stumbled across a pretty interesting approach. PAR/ASR Rwys 8, 26 down in Ft. Huachuca, AZ. Not something you see too often, especially seeing as how it doesn't have an MSA or TAA. I wonder if they'll let you do practice approaches?

[/ QUOTE ]

See it all the time......

You can do practice approaches if you want, just know how a ASR/PAR works and what the pilot responsibilities are for it, and what ATC expects/will do for you. That's the main part that not many civilian pilots know, and admittedly, the AIM doesn't cover these types of approaches very well. Why you ask? Very few PARs at civilian-only fields, and ASRs are only a little more prevelant. But being that they're in the National Airspace System and one could use one sometime, especially in a pinch, IMO, the AIM should give them a little more than a couple of paragraphs.

bluelake · October 20th, 2003, 21:08

anywhere on the web i can view this supposed non-MSA approach? MyAirplane.com does not have it...

RiddlePilot · October 21st, 2003, 00:05

You could just go out to your nearest pilot shop and spend the $4 on the Southwest plate set...

bluelake · October 23rd, 2003, 22:33

I hope you replied because it was easier to joke instead of actually answering my question

Dean
CFI-I

RiddlePilot · October 24th, 2003, 02:49

Naw seriously, I don't know where you'd be able to find something like that.

bluelake · October 24th, 2003, 14:16

i only mentioned myairplane.com because they seem to have a pretty complete listing of approaches.. and yo uought to know I tore my little office here apart because at ONE TIME I HAD a southwest plate

EatSleepFly · October 24th, 2003, 15:41

[ QUOTE ]
and yo uought to know I tore my little office here apart because at ONE TIME I HAD a southwest plate

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha! I can picture that, because I've done the very same thing. Usually looking for instrument covers though...those things seem to grow legs!

October 14th, 2003, 19:53	#1
SkyGirl Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 129	MSAs and Intermediate Fixes I am wondering if anyone has seen either of the following on any approach charts...If so, please share. 1) A chart without a MSA. 2) A chart with an intermediate approach fix. Thanks.

October 14th, 2003, 20:00	#2
Baronman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NEWARK Posts: 1,079	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes I think we have a wise guy (gal) here! Be careful, the FAA goons are gonna come out of the shadows and get you for asking about intermediate approach fixes!! Just accept that they exist for the instrument written!!

October 14th, 2003, 21:35	#3
SkyGirl Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 129	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes Sorry, but I was asking in all seriousness. A friend and I were trying to find examples, but we came up short. Does this mean there are none? How disappointing.

October 15th, 2003, 06:56	#4
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes [ QUOTE ] 2) A chart with an intermediate approach fix. [/ QUOTE ] Look at some "RNAV (GPS)" approaches. As far as I can remember, they are the only ones I've ever seen with Intermediate Fixes, although I'm sure there are probably others.

October 16th, 2003, 08:32	#5
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes I also asked about charts with no MSA's in an earlier post, but I dont think anyone knew of any.. still searching...

October 16th, 2003, 20:35	#6
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes Alot of the RNAV approaches have a TAA instead of a MSA.

October 17th, 2003, 05:05	#7
RiddlePilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 928	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes Welp, I can find one with a TAA, and I can find one with an IF, but not one with both. I'm stumped. As a side note, while I was paging through my jepps (yes, I really have nothing better to do), I stumbled across a pretty interesting approach. PAR/ASR Rwys 8, 26 down in Ft. Huachuca, AZ. Not something you see too often, especially seeing as how it doesn't have an MSA or TAA. I wonder if they'll let you do practice approaches?

October 17th, 2003, 12:29	#8
SkyGirl Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 129	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes Thanks everyone for your help. Ill look into the charts you suggest.

October 17th, 2003, 22:14	#9
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes [ QUOTE ] I stumbled across a pretty interesting approach. PAR/ASR Rwys 8, 26 down in Ft. Huachuca, AZ. Not something you see too often, especially seeing as how it doesn't have an MSA or TAA. I wonder if they'll let you do practice approaches? [/ QUOTE ] See it all the time...... You can do practice approaches if you want, just know how a ASR/PAR works and what the pilot responsibilities are for it, and what ATC expects/will do for you. That's the main part that not many civilian pilots know, and admittedly, the AIM doesn't cover these types of approaches very well. Why you ask? Very few PARs at civilian-only fields, and ASRs are only a little more prevelant. But being that they're in the National Airspace System and one could use one sometime, especially in a pinch, IMO, the AIM should give them a little more than a couple of paragraphs.

October 20th, 2003, 21:08	#10
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes anywhere on the web i can view this supposed non-MSA approach? MyAirplane.com does not have it...

October 21st, 2003, 00:05	#11
RiddlePilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 928	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes You could just go out to your nearest pilot shop and spend the $4 on the Southwest plate set...

October 23rd, 2003, 22:33	#12
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes I hope you replied because it was easier to joke instead of actually answering my question Dean CFI-I

October 24th, 2003, 02:49	#13
RiddlePilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 928	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes Naw seriously, I don't know where you'd be able to find something like that.

October 24th, 2003, 14:16	#14
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes i only mentioned myairplane.com because they seem to have a pretty complete listing of approaches.. and yo uought to know I tore my little office here apart because at ONE TIME I HAD a southwest plate

October 24th, 2003, 15:41	#15
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: MSAs and Intermediate Fixes [ QUOTE ] and yo uought to know I tore my little office here apart because at ONE TIME I HAD a southwest plate [/ QUOTE ] Hahahaha! I can picture that, because I've done the very same thing. Usually looking for instrument covers though...those things seem to grow legs!

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