Approach Chart with no MSA??

bluelake · September 22nd, 2003, 14:50

Ok, here is another one. I was told there exists (somewhere) Instrument Aproach Charts that do NOT have an MSA printed on it, but I have not seen any. Does anyone know of an IAP chart that does not have an MSA printed on it (ps- I realize that some charts have TAA's on them instead - I know about those).

Thanks!!

Jason · September 22nd, 2003, 17:00

I can't actually name one but I think I remember reading somewhere a loooong time ago that if there isn't one then it reverts back to the ole' 1,000 ft above non mountainous terrain and 2,000 above mountainous within 25nm of the navaid upon which the approach is predicated.

I could be totally full of crap too - who knows!?!?

Jason

JHines · September 22nd, 2003, 20:14

[ QUOTE ]
I was told there exists (somewhere) Instrument Aproach Charts that do NOT have an MSA printed on it, but I have not seen any.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen any either. According to the Instrument Flying Handbook, there won't be a MSA listed if there isn't an appropriate navaid (not considering TAA charts as you mentioned).

I am thinking this would occur in something like a radar-required ILS, LOC or LDA approach, that has no IAF (I mean, at least not a non-RNAV/GPS IAF). In that case, there might not be a navaid available with the service volume to define an appropriate safe area around the airport.

onthebeach · September 25th, 2003, 19:01

Get a NACO TPP and look in Section "N" at the front of the book.

bluelake · September 25th, 2003, 20:35

for which area? I have northern Cali (yup, our state gets two) and there are "no Radar Procedures for this volume" listed..

also looked in the NW pub. theres some PARS etc.. in Section N. but those areas STILL have MSA's published on all approaches.

onthebeach · September 26th, 2003, 08:43

You may be looking at MDA and mistaking it for MSA. Is that it?

davidhigbie · September 26th, 2003, 16:42

Know you're asking about MDAs, but the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is a Cat II or III ILS which doesnt have a DA but only has RVR (i.e. MCO ILS 35 for example).

bluelake · September 26th, 2003, 20:06

no, I know what the MSA looks like and I havent confused it with MDA.

How do I know?? I just succesfully passed my CFI-I ride today. YIPPEE

EatSleepFly · September 26th, 2003, 20:16

Congrats!!!

bluelake · September 26th, 2003, 21:34

Hey thanks.
The ride went well, if not perfect. Whats most scary is what to DO with it next

September 22nd, 2003, 14:50	#1
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Approach Chart with no MSA?? Ok, here is another one. I was told there exists (somewhere) Instrument Aproach Charts that do NOT have an MSA printed on it, but I have not seen any. Does anyone know of an IAP chart that does not have an MSA printed on it (ps- I realize that some charts have TAA's on them instead - I know about those). Thanks!!

September 22nd, 2003, 17:00	#2
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 979	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? I can't actually name one but I think I remember reading somewhere a loooong time ago that if there isn't one then it reverts back to the ole' 1,000 ft above non mountainous terrain and 2,000 above mountainous within 25nm of the navaid upon which the approach is predicated. I could be totally full of crap too - who knows!?!? Jason

September 22nd, 2003, 20:14	#3
JHines Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SC Posts: 292	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? [ QUOTE ] I was told there exists (somewhere) Instrument Aproach Charts that do NOT have an MSA printed on it, but I have not seen any. [/ QUOTE ] I haven't seen any either. According to the Instrument Flying Handbook, there won't be a MSA listed if there isn't an appropriate navaid (not considering TAA charts as you mentioned). I am thinking this would occur in something like a radar-required ILS, LOC or LDA approach, that has no IAF (I mean, at least not a non-RNAV/GPS IAF). In that case, there might not be a navaid available with the service volume to define an appropriate safe area around the airport.

September 25th, 2003, 19:01	#4
onthebeach Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 22	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? Get a NACO TPP and look in Section "N" at the front of the book.

September 25th, 2003, 20:35	#5
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? for which area? I have northern Cali (yup, our state gets two) and there are "no Radar Procedures for this volume" listed.. also looked in the NW pub. theres some PARS etc.. in Section N. but those areas STILL have MSA's published on all approaches.

September 26th, 2003, 08:43	#6
onthebeach Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 22	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? You may be looking at MDA and mistaking it for MSA. Is that it?

September 26th, 2003, 16:42	#7
davidhigbie Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: iah Posts: 169	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? Know you're asking about MDAs, but the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is a Cat II or III ILS which doesnt have a DA but only has RVR (i.e. MCO ILS 35 for example).

September 26th, 2003, 20:06	#8
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? no, I know what the MSA looks like and I havent confused it with MDA. How do I know?? I just succesfully passed my CFI-I ride today. YIPPEE

September 26th, 2003, 20:16	#9
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? Congrats!!!

September 26th, 2003, 21:34	#10
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: Approach Chart with no MSA?? Hey thanks. The ride went well, if not perfect. Whats most scary is what to DO with it next

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