Class Delta - Radar or Chart?

Mr_Creepy · September 14th, 2003, 05:55

While in the run up area at KORL yesterday I hear the tower controller start berating a guy for being in the class Delta. Went something like this:

T: Who is the Lake Amphibian that is flying in the north of my class Delta without permission?

P: This is experimental blahblah landing at lake blahblah, my seaplane port and I am not in the Delta.

T: My radar shows you in the Delta.

P: Well my chart shows I'm not.

T: If my radar shows you in the Delta then you are.

P: Look lady, I don't care what your radar shows, I am looking at the TPA-ORL terminal area chart and I am not in "Your Delta!"

I had always thought the chart was controlling. Who is right here?

John_Jones · September 14th, 2003, 07:10

That women may not know worth a ##### or maybe she did and the caravan was clueless. I would saythe chart always beats the controller but when in it comes to controllers I always comply with commands.

Cheechako · September 14th, 2003, 09:54

This doesn't answer the question, but obviously the Lake knew he was rather close because he was monitoring the frequency. A courtesy call to the tower would have been nice to state his intentions. . .

DE727UPS · September 14th, 2003, 10:20

I'm waiting to hear the same conversation over GPS. I have a moving map, IFR approved, GPS in my 152 and I'd argue that it's more accurate than their radar....though their radar is accurate enough. I can see some control freak controller with nothing better to do than whine about my being too close to "his Delta" someday. I applaud the experimental guy for knowing where he is and not taking any crap from the controller....provided he was in the right. If she was right, then she has the option of pursuing the issue via the FSDO.

MikeD · September 14th, 2003, 10:26

[ QUOTE ]
some control freak controller with nothing better to do

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

rausda27 · September 14th, 2003, 14:55

Did the controller have the aircraft on radar and a visual? I was wondering how they knew it was a lake amphibian?

Eagle · September 15th, 2003, 05:41

I wouldn't even have answered ATC...

kellwolf · September 15th, 2003, 09:15

[ QUOTE ]
Did the controller have the aircraft on radar and a visual? I was wondering how they knew it was a lake amphibian?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they were landing on Lake Eola (and they would have FOR SURE been in the Delta there), there's almost no where I can think of that the tower could have had a visual on them, even with binoculars. When I did my tower visit at ORL, I know their radar had the Class B airspace on it, but I'm almost positive the Delta wasn't shown. I'm inclined to believe that this guy wasn't in her airspace but might have been close.

I_Money · September 15th, 2003, 10:13

I have been asked to id an aircraft before, maybe that is how they found out the type.

Mavmb · September 19th, 2003, 19:39

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't even have answered ATC...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, me too. Sometimes silence is golden!

Eagle · September 20th, 2003, 05:42

[ QUOTE ]
I have been asked to id an aircraft before, maybe that is how they found out the type.

[/ QUOTE ]

AND YOU SAID SURE!! LET ME HELP!!

(darth ashcroft thanks you)

cime_sp · September 21st, 2003, 19:37

seeing as the government provides charts for pilots to use for navigation...they would have absolutely no case against this guy assuming he was where he said he was and could "prove" it somehow if questioned.

That being said...he should have let the tower know

September 14th, 2003, 05:55	#1
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,807	Class Delta - Radar or Chart? While in the run up area at KORL yesterday I hear the tower controller start berating a guy for being in the class Delta. Went something like this: T: Who is the Lake Amphibian that is flying in the north of my class Delta without permission? P: This is experimental blahblah landing at lake blahblah, my seaplane port and I am not in the Delta. T: My radar shows you in the Delta. P: Well my chart shows I'm not. T: If my radar shows you in the Delta then you are. P: Look lady, I don't care what your radar shows, I am looking at the TPA-ORL terminal area chart and I am not in "Your Delta!" I had always thought the chart was controlling. Who is right here?

September 14th, 2003, 07:10	#2
John_Jones Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 329	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? That women may not know worth a ##### or maybe she did and the caravan was clueless. I would saythe chart always beats the controller but when in it comes to controllers I always comply with commands.

September 14th, 2003, 09:54	#3
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 976	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? This doesn't answer the question, but obviously the Lake knew he was rather close because he was monitoring the frequency. A courtesy call to the tower would have been nice to state his intentions. . .

September 14th, 2003, 10:20	#4
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,515	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? I'm waiting to hear the same conversation over GPS. I have a moving map, IFR approved, GPS in my 152 and I'd argue that it's more accurate than their radar....though their radar is accurate enough. I can see some control freak controller with nothing better to do than whine about my being too close to "his Delta" someday. I applaud the experimental guy for knowing where he is and not taking any crap from the controller....provided he was in the right. If she was right, then she has the option of pursuing the issue via the FSDO.

September 14th, 2003, 10:26	#5
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? [ QUOTE ] some control freak controller with nothing better to do [/ QUOTE ] LOL

September 14th, 2003, 14:55	#6
rausda27 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,252	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? Did the controller have the aircraft on radar and a visual? I was wondering how they knew it was a lake amphibian?

September 15th, 2003, 05:41	#7
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? I wouldn't even have answered ATC...

September 15th, 2003, 09:15	#8
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,634	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? [ QUOTE ] Did the controller have the aircraft on radar and a visual? I was wondering how they knew it was a lake amphibian? [/ QUOTE ] Unless they were landing on Lake Eola (and they would have FOR SURE been in the Delta there), there's almost no where I can think of that the tower could have had a visual on them, even with binoculars. When I did my tower visit at ORL, I know their radar had the Class B airspace on it, but I'm almost positive the Delta wasn't shown. I'm inclined to believe that this guy wasn't in her airspace but might have been close.

September 15th, 2003, 10:13	#9
I_Money Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal Posts: 5,650	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? I have been asked to id an aircraft before, maybe that is how they found out the type.

September 19th, 2003, 19:39	#10
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? [ QUOTE ] I wouldn't even have answered ATC... [/ QUOTE ] Lol, me too. Sometimes silence is golden!

September 20th, 2003, 05:42	#11
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? [ QUOTE ] I have been asked to id an aircraft before, maybe that is how they found out the type. [/ QUOTE ] AND YOU SAID SURE!! LET ME HELP!! (darth ashcroft thanks you)

September 21st, 2003, 19:37	#12
cime_sp Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 779	Re: Class Delta - Radar or Chart? seeing as the government provides charts for pilots to use for navigation...they would have absolutely no case against this guy assuming he was where he said he was and could "prove" it somehow if questioned. That being said...he should have let the tower know

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