Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment

farwellbooth · June 9th, 2003, 14:38

The requirement under 61 says "with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nm from the original departure point".

I flew a 7.5 hour trip yesterday of which I went in a straight line over 250 nm miles however I landed at a distance less than 250 nm for fuel and bathroom. The rule means I have to fly at least 250 w/o landing correct???

Eagle · June 9th, 2003, 14:52

no not really, you can land as many times as you want, so long as one of the landings is +250nm fromyour departure.

E_Dawg · June 9th, 2003, 20:21

Not to condone bending the rules.... but you are not required to log every point of touchdown when on an XC flight (or any flight for that matter).

Not that it should matter anyways... but if you have a picky DE....

EatSleepFly · June 9th, 2003, 20:28

Using myself as an example to answer the original question: My commercial (multi) XC was 250+ miles (VRB-SAV). We were running late getting back because of deviating around weather, and we almost forgot to do the other required stop. So we just did a touch and go at Sebastian (just a few miles from VRB) on the way back into VRB. Point is, as long as one point of landing is more than 250nm from your original point of departure, it counts.

[ QUOTE ]
Not to condone bending the rules.... but you are not required to log every point of touchdown when on an XC flight.

Not that it should matter anyways... but if you have a picky DE....

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you not want to log each point of touchdown? Seems kind of silly to me. An examiner can't fault you for making more stops on your commercial XC than is required.

Also...you are required to log each location you arrived and departed from if you plan on using that flight for training or meeting aeronautical experience requirements. Reference 61.51(b)(1)(iii).

(EDIT

I suppose you could maybe omit the stops that weren't required in order to meet the aeronautical experience requirements. But I think thats a stretch, and again, whats the point?

E_Dawg · June 9th, 2003, 21:25

There is no point... just saying it could be done.

Wolverine · June 9th, 2003, 21:30

[ QUOTE ]
We were running late...
we almost forgot...
we just did a touch and go...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure you didn't mean to say we, but shouldn't that x-country be solo?

CRJwannabe · June 9th, 2003, 23:19

There is a possibility that the "WE" reference was due to the fact that the student was actually doing the training for his/her multi engine commercial rating. I have cut and pasted the regulation (and included all relevant lines):

Subpart F--Commercial Pilots

Sec. 61.129

Aeronautical experience

(a) For an airplane SINGLE -engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:
.
.
.
(4) 10 hours of SOLO flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which includes at least--
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.

OR FOR MULTI ENGINE, > > >

(b) For an airplane MULTI engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:
.
.
.
(4) 10 hours of SOLO flight time in a multiengine airplane OR 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane WITH AN AUTHORIZED INSTRUCTOR (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least--
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.

Hope this helps clear up what seemed to be a violation of a FAR but could actually be totally legit (especially since many flight schools do the MULTI commercial first, then a single engine ADD on).

EatSleepFly · June 10th, 2003, 05:58

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you didn't mean to say we, but shouldn't that x-country be solo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Acting PIC. FSI (at the time anyways) didn't allow students to go solo in the Seminoles.

Eagle · June 10th, 2003, 07:10

[ QUOTE ]

Acting PIC. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah it is prety funny, when I did my AMEL - COMM I didn;t have my ASEL - COMM so I had to fly the "10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with the instructor", we did a few laps around PA, and were done.

pavelump · June 10th, 2003, 10:40

My response was "what the hell have I been doing up to now!" when we got to the "Acting PIC" part.

Dave

June 9th, 2003, 14:38	#1
farwellbooth Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 316	Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment The requirement under 61 says "with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nm from the original departure point". I flew a 7.5 hour trip yesterday of which I went in a straight line over 250 nm miles however I landed at a distance less than 250 nm for fuel and bathroom. The rule means I have to fly at least 250 w/o landing correct???

June 9th, 2003, 14:52	#2
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment no not really, you can land as many times as you want, so long as one of the landings is +250nm fromyour departure.

June 9th, 2003, 20:21	#3
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,170	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment Not to condone bending the rules.... but you are not required to log every point of touchdown when on an XC flight (or any flight for that matter). Not that it should matter anyways... but if you have a picky DE....

June 9th, 2003, 20:28	#4
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment Using myself as an example to answer the original question: My commercial (multi) XC was 250+ miles (VRB-SAV). We were running late getting back because of deviating around weather, and we almost forgot to do the other required stop. So we just did a touch and go at Sebastian (just a few miles from VRB) on the way back into VRB. Point is, as long as one point of landing is more than 250nm from your original point of departure, it counts. [ QUOTE ] Not to condone bending the rules.... but you are not required to log every point of touchdown when on an XC flight. Not that it should matter anyways... but if you have a picky DE.... [/ QUOTE ] Why would you not want to log each point of touchdown? Seems kind of silly to me. An examiner can't fault you for making more stops on your commercial XC than is required. Also...you are required to log each location you arrived and departed from if you plan on using that flight for training or meeting aeronautical experience requirements. Reference 61.51(b)(1)(iii). (EDIT I suppose you could maybe omit the stops that weren't required in order to meet the aeronautical experience requirements. But I think thats a stretch, and again, whats the point?

June 9th, 2003, 21:25	#5
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,170	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment There is no point... just saying it could be done.

June 9th, 2003, 21:30	#6
Wolverine Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 167	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment [ QUOTE ] We were running late... we almost forgot... we just did a touch and go... [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure you didn't mean to say we, but shouldn't that x-country be solo?

June 9th, 2003, 23:19	#7
CRJwannabe Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 32	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment There is a possibility that the "WE" reference was due to the fact that the student was actually doing the training for his/her multi engine commercial rating. I have cut and pasted the regulation (and included all relevant lines): Subpart F--Commercial Pilots Sec. 61.129 Aeronautical experience (a) For an airplane SINGLE -engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least: . . . (4) 10 hours of SOLO flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which includes at least-- (i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. OR FOR MULTI ENGINE, > > > (b) For an airplane MULTI engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least: . . . (4) 10 hours of SOLO flight time in a multiengine airplane OR 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane WITH AN AUTHORIZED INSTRUCTOR (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least-- (i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. Hope this helps clear up what seemed to be a violation of a FAR but could actually be totally legit (especially since many flight schools do the MULTI commercial first, then a single engine ADD on).

June 10th, 2003, 05:58	#8
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment [ QUOTE ] I'm sure you didn't mean to say we, but shouldn't that x-country be solo? [/ QUOTE ] Acting PIC. FSI (at the time anyways) didn't allow students to go solo in the Seminoles.

June 10th, 2003, 07:10	#9
Eagle Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,272	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment [ QUOTE ] Acting PIC. ... [/ QUOTE ] yeah it is prety funny, when I did my AMEL - COMM I didn;t have my ASEL - COMM so I had to fly the "10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with the instructor", we did a few laps around PA, and were done.

June 10th, 2003, 10:40	#10
pavelump Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 790	Re: Comm. 300 nm x-country requirment My response was "what the hell have I been doing up to now!" when we got to the "Acting PIC" part. Dave

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