Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights

Alchemy · May 8th, 2003, 21:19

Just curious, does anyone know if legally, by the FAR's if you can land at night at an airport which does not have runway lights? I asked my CFI about this earlier today, and could not get a definite answer from any of the other CFI's at my flight school either.

Of course it wouldn't be smart and I'd never want to do it, but it'd be nice to know.

EatSleepFly · May 8th, 2003, 21:21

Perfectly legal (under part 91). Not all that smart, but legal.

E_Dawg · May 8th, 2003, 21:38

I read an NTSB report of some guy who (crash) landed next to the runway at an airport where the runway lights were OTS. He didn't check NOTAMs and when he got there the lights didn't turn on!

He must not have been very 'bright'.

That'll 'light up' your night.

That's sure to 'brighten' his weekend.

I wonder if the FAA will 'enlighten' him.

OK I'm done

MikeD · May 10th, 2003, 12:59

Wouldn't want to do it without NVGs or unless an emergency.

JDMcFly · May 10th, 2003, 21:19

A lot of strips in the carribean don't have much for landing lights..

I was flying in flightsimulator one evening, at dark around the area and flew into an airport that's runway only had those two "blinking" lights. Talk about loss of orientation!

Not only could I barely even see the strip, the blinking lights made it worse, because it is all I could really see of the runway, it was very hard to align my self with the runway.

Well.. Okay, isn't much of a story, I think I made it onto the strip, barely.. Luckily it WAS only in flightsimulator.

I hate those dang blinking lights.

MikeD · May 11th, 2003, 16:51

[ QUOTE ]
I was flying in flightsimulator one evening, at dark around the area and flew into an airport that's runway only had those two "blinking" lights. Talk about loss of orientation!

.I hate those dang blinking lights.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a reason for the Runway End Identifier Lights, or REILs; that's to let the pilot be able to pick out the runway environment from surrounding lights especially when the runway edge lights are low or medium intensity.

When you land in PHX or the surrounding airports at night, you'll learn to love those "blinking lights"

JDMcFly · May 12th, 2003, 00:32

I suppose I will, I just didn't expect them, or really know how to fly into an unlighted strip at dark (with just those two lights).

I don't mind the 'blinkers' as long as there are edge lights. I don't recall this one having any, it was awhile ago though.

bumflip · May 13th, 2003, 09:00

I used to fly under blackout conditions in the OH-58 under NVG's....Talk about a lack of depth perception! You also had to be able to rip off the NOD's and still land! Main idea is off-center viewing, and IF you have only two blinking lights on the runway, don't even look at them, fixation/fascination is another killer!

MikeD · May 13th, 2003, 12:14

[ QUOTE ]
I used to fly under blackout conditions in the OH-58 under NVG's....Talk about a lack of depth perception! You also had to be able to rip off the NOD's and still land! Main idea is off-center viewing, and IF you have only two blinking lights on the runway, don't even look at them, fixation/fascination is another killer!

[/ QUOTE ]

We regularly do NVG ops too, albeit not down in the trees like the helos do! Was operating with helos once. When working out a deconfliction plan between them and us, I queried the AMC in the OH-58 if he wanted 500' and below. You would've thought I just committed blasphemy asking that question! In a somewhat surprised voice, he informed that the helos would like 100' AGL and below, since that's all they need, but expect them to be lower.

You ever do JAAT? I don't mean the current CAS with helos JAAT, but the old JAAT with the JAAT fires coordination clock and such?

H46Bubba · May 14th, 2003, 16:20

Could you imagine GA flying around with NVG's? Man, people would be crashing left and right! It could be plausable though with proper training. I've always wanted to try it.

Cheechako · May 19th, 2003, 11:36

In Alaska where I flew we didn't have lights on the runway. Every now and then someone would come in after dark. We'd all run out there on snow-mobiles and four-wheelers and line the runway. One guy even had a battery powered strobe light he'd put on the end of the runway. Worked pretty good!

DeltaASA16 · May 20th, 2003, 14:15

WOW! I can't believe that they'd do that in ALASKA

...well when you gotta do something, you gotta do it!

DeltaASA16

onthebeach · May 23rd, 2003, 17:18

Neatest trick I ever saw in this regard was on a guy's privately owned strip on the peninsula east of Galveston bay. The strip was about 2000' x 25' and sod, if I remember right. Anyway, the guy had gone to home depot or somewhere and bought a bunch of those red reflector things on aluminum posts...the kind people stick in the ground by the corners of their driveways. He stuck them every 50' or so down both sides of the runway. Then when he came in at night he just lined up on where the strip was by reference to the nearby highway, turned on his landing light, and bingo! the reflectors gave him "runway edge lighting." Probably would have s*cked if his landing light burned out.

ready2fly · May 28th, 2003, 07:42

[ QUOTE ]
Probably would have s*cked if his landing light burned out.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure you're not going to get booted for typing the word "SUCK".

EatSleepFly · May 28th, 2003, 09:11

Probably depends on the context you use it in!

May 8th, 2003, 21:19	#1
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,748	Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights Just curious, does anyone know if legally, by the FAR's if you can land at night at an airport which does not have runway lights? I asked my CFI about this earlier today, and could not get a definite answer from any of the other CFI's at my flight school either. Of course it wouldn't be smart and I'd never want to do it, but it'd be nice to know.

May 8th, 2003, 21:21	#2
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights Perfectly legal (under part 91). Not all that smart, but legal.

May 8th, 2003, 21:38	#3
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,164	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights I read an NTSB report of some guy who (crash) landed next to the runway at an airport where the runway lights were OTS. He didn't check NOTAMs and when he got there the lights didn't turn on! He must not have been very 'bright'. That'll 'light up' your night. That's sure to 'brighten' his weekend. I wonder if the FAA will 'enlighten' him. OK I'm done

May 10th, 2003, 12:59	#4
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights Wouldn't want to do it without NVGs or unless an emergency.

May 10th, 2003, 21:19	#5
JDMcFly Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,664	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights A lot of strips in the carribean don't have much for landing lights.. I was flying in flightsimulator one evening, at dark around the area and flew into an airport that's runway only had those two "blinking" lights. Talk about loss of orientation! Not only could I barely even see the strip, the blinking lights made it worse, because it is all I could really see of the runway, it was very hard to align my self with the runway. Well.. Okay, isn't much of a story, I think I made it onto the strip, barely.. Luckily it WAS only in flightsimulator. I hate those dang blinking lights.

May 11th, 2003, 16:51	#6
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights [ QUOTE ] I was flying in flightsimulator one evening, at dark around the area and flew into an airport that's runway only had those two "blinking" lights. Talk about loss of orientation! .I hate those dang blinking lights. [/ QUOTE ] There's a reason for the Runway End Identifier Lights, or REILs; that's to let the pilot be able to pick out the runway environment from surrounding lights especially when the runway edge lights are low or medium intensity. When you land in PHX or the surrounding airports at night, you'll learn to love those "blinking lights"

May 12th, 2003, 00:32	#7
JDMcFly Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,664	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights I suppose I will, I just didn't expect them, or really know how to fly into an unlighted strip at dark (with just those two lights). I don't mind the 'blinkers' as long as there are edge lights. I don't recall this one having any, it was awhile ago though.

May 13th, 2003, 09:00	#8
bumflip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 314	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights I used to fly under blackout conditions in the OH-58 under NVG's....Talk about a lack of depth perception! You also had to be able to rip off the NOD's and still land! Main idea is off-center viewing, and IF you have only two blinking lights on the runway, don't even look at them, fixation/fascination is another killer!

May 13th, 2003, 12:14	#9
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights [ QUOTE ] I used to fly under blackout conditions in the OH-58 under NVG's....Talk about a lack of depth perception! You also had to be able to rip off the NOD's and still land! Main idea is off-center viewing, and IF you have only two blinking lights on the runway, don't even look at them, fixation/fascination is another killer! [/ QUOTE ] We regularly do NVG ops too, albeit not down in the trees like the helos do! Was operating with helos once. When working out a deconfliction plan between them and us, I queried the AMC in the OH-58 if he wanted 500' and below. You would've thought I just committed blasphemy asking that question! In a somewhat surprised voice, he informed that the helos would like 100' AGL and below, since that's all they need, but expect them to be lower. You ever do JAAT? I don't mean the current CAS with helos JAAT, but the old JAAT with the JAAT fires coordination clock and such?

May 14th, 2003, 16:20	#10
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,149	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights Could you imagine GA flying around with NVG's? Man, people would be crashing left and right! It could be plausable though with proper training. I've always wanted to try it.

May 19th, 2003, 11:36	#11
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 972	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights In Alaska where I flew we didn't have lights on the runway. Every now and then someone would come in after dark. We'd all run out there on snow-mobiles and four-wheelers and line the runway. One guy even had a battery powered strobe light he'd put on the end of the runway. Worked pretty good!

May 20th, 2003, 14:15	#12
DeltaASA16 Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 82	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights WOW! I can't believe that they'd do that in ALASKA ...well when you gotta do something, you gotta do it! DeltaASA16

May 23rd, 2003, 17:18	#13
onthebeach Newbie Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 22	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights Neatest trick I ever saw in this regard was on a guy's privately owned strip on the peninsula east of Galveston bay. The strip was about 2000' x 25' and sod, if I remember right. Anyway, the guy had gone to home depot or somewhere and bought a bunch of those red reflector things on aluminum posts...the kind people stick in the ground by the corners of their driveways. He stuck them every 50' or so down both sides of the runway. Then when he came in at night he just lined up on where the strip was by reference to the nearby highway, turned on his landing light, and bingo! the reflectors gave him "runway edge lighting." Probably would have s*cked if his landing light burned out.

May 28th, 2003, 07:42	#14
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,113	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights [ QUOTE ] Probably would have s*cked if his landing light burned out. [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure you're not going to get booted for typing the word "SUCK".

May 28th, 2003, 09:11	#15
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Landing at Night at an Airport without Lights Probably depends on the context you use it in!

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