uncontrolled IFR

[dbrault17]

To my understanding you can enter IMC into uncontrolled airspace without a clearance or an IFR flight plan. Asuming a pilot with an instrument rating in an instrument rated airplane departed in VFR with the VFR mins. and wanted to then switch IFR then can he just bust right into the clouds and ignore the 1 mile vis and clear of clouds? If so then why would there ever be VFR Mins to begin with? What separates a VFR flight from an IFR flight (and I mean legally, not the seperation of aircraft)?

[ananoman]

Originally Posted by dbrault17

To my understanding you can enter IMC into uncontrolled airspace without a clearance or an IFR flight plan. Asuming a pilot with an instrument rating in an instrument rated airplane departed in VFR with the VFR mins. and wanted to then switch IFR then can he just bust right into the clouds and ignore the 1 mile vis and clear of clouds? If so then why would there ever be VFR Mins to begin with? What separates a VFR flight from an IFR flight (and I mean legally, not the seperation of aircraft)?

Even in uncontrolled airspace, you still need to be instrument rated and your airplane still needs to be IFR equipped. If these requirements are not met, then you must operate VFR.

[JJS]

Originally Posted by dbrault17

To my understanding you can enter IMC into uncontrolled airspace without a clearance or an IFR flight plan. Asuming a pilot with an instrument rating in an instrument rated airplane departed in VFR with the VFR mins. and wanted to then switch IFR then can he just bust right into the clouds and ignore the 1 mile vis and clear of clouds? If so then why would there ever be VFR Mins to begin with? What separates a VFR flight from an IFR flight (and I mean legally, not the seperation of aircraft)?

I think the regs say you have to be on an IFR flight plan to before you enter IMC in controlled airspace. But to my understanding, if you do not have an IFR clearance, you are VFR, and then VFR minimums in uncontrolled airspace would apply. If you entered IMC in uncontrolled airspace you would be breaking the regs for VFR. I think thats right, but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by JJS

I think the regs say you have to be on an IFR flight plan to before you enter IMC in controlled airspace. But to my understanding, if you do not have an IFR clearance, you are VFR, and then VFR minimums in uncontrolled airspace would apply. If you entered IMC in uncontrolled airspace you would be breaking the regs for VFR. I think thats right, but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You do not have to have a clearance or flight plan to fly IFR in uncontrolled airspace. If you are instrument rated and current, and the airplane is legal, you can fly IMC in uncontrolled airspace all day long without saying word one to anybody.

[JJS]

Yeah you're right. I was kinda thinking about IFR flights from uncontrolled airports via airways. Just keep in mind that you have to apply by IFR altitude minimums and more times than not it will put you into controlled airspace.

[meritflyer]

I've taken this from another thread which we discussed this in detail. The is Midlifeflyer's response. I concur with him.

"Technically, an aircraft in Class G doesn't =have= a clearance while in Class G - the clearance is not applicable until the aircraft enters controlled airspace. That's pretty much what "controlled airspace" is about - airspace in which ATC provides services and has a right to exercise control. (Note the language contained in takeoff clearances from Class G: "Upon entering controlled airspace...." )

As I remember, the cases that put the kibosh on flying in IMC in Class G involve aircraft that are in some way posing a danger to aircraft in controlled airspace. I think one involves an aircraft taking off from a Class G airport in an area conducive to ground fog. An aircraft taking off in those conditions without communicating with ATC or obtaining an IFR clearance that will apply as soon as the aircraft moves into Class E poses a risk to aircraft that are already in IMC in controlled airspace. (Which pretty much covers the situation as you described it in your earlier post).

That's a very different situation than flying over a mountain pass in Class G airspace 300-400' above a cloud capping the ridge and moving up the sides of the peaks above you (less than a mile away on either side) in otherwise severe clear conditions without filing an IFR flight plan. (Damn! I =still= wish may camera had not been packed in my bag the baggage compartment that day!)"

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by JJS

Just keep in mind that you have to apply by IFR altitude minimums and more times than not it will put you into controlled airspace.

That was implied, and it may usually put you in controlled airspace on the east coast, but not in the northwest and mountain states. There is a LOT of uncontrolled airspace out there.

[planejay]

I haven't looked in the FAR/AIM 2007 yet but it seems to me there are VFR weather minimums for class G. I don't remember reading anything about those minimums only applying to non-instrument rated folk.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by planejay

I haven't looked in the FAR/AIM 2007 yet but it seems to me there are VFR weather minimums for class G. I don't remember reading anything about those minimums only applying to non-instrument rated folk.

"VFR weather miimums" = weather minimums required for flight under VFR. An instrument-rated pilot is allowed to fly under IFR. That's the whole idea.