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| | #1 |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Military Training Routes (updated due to another incident): The other week, I was flying a low level along VR-239. Cruising at 480 KIAS and 500 AGL, I was doing the standard clock/map/ground as I navigated along and around the terrain on the route. Coming around turn point 4, I happened to spot, by luck, a Cessna 177 doing what appeared to be turns on/around a point at low level.....standard training. Glad I spotted him earlier, and no problem making a deviation around him, but had I not spotted him, it could've been a close call or worse. He was likely concentrating on his airwork, as I was mainly concentrating on map/ground, so it's even more luck that one of us spotted the other. I don't know if he ever saw me, but I doubt it, since I was at his 6-7 o'clock when I first spotted him, and lagged around his six to pass him by a good margin as he completed his left turn. IMO, practicing airwork in a MOA or along a known MTR, anything where training is going on and full attention can't be maintained to the outside, is potential trouble waiting to happen. Military Training Routes are usually never in "military-only areas" such as Restricted Areas, etc. As military pilots, we train like we fight; and if that means a 450 knot low-level ingress to a target, then that's what we do. There's a reason that MTRs in the USA are depicted on Sectional Aeronautical Charts and the US AP-1/B chart; that's so civilian pilots can plan around them, and either avoid them, or be able to be VERY heads-up if they must fly near them. When I say "must fly near them", I'm referring to some MTRs which come within (due to terrain) some small private, uncontrolled airstrips, such as those near ranches, etc. In these instances, civilians need to go in/out of these fields, and knowing the status of a particular MTR near you is important. It's perfectly legal to fly through/in MOAs and along MTRs, but that's not the question. As you know, in VMC, it's everyone's responsibility to see and avoid. But here's a good example of the problem: In the A-10, I had no radar for my low-levels, my only separation ability comes from the Mk.1 eyeball. Keep in mind, though, that I have a multitude of cockpit tasks going on while tooling along at 300 AGL/360 KIAS. First, eyeing terrain to make sure I'm doing my job of pilotage correctly (ie- matching terrain features with what's on my map to make sure I'm going the right way), avoiding hitting the ground/power lines/near rocks/far rocks, keeping track of my timing per leg [if I'm going for a specific TOT, or Time Over Target], keeping track of my other aircraft in my formation, insuring my weapons panel is set correctly [such as setup change from air-air to air-ground], going over and over in my mind what the attack plan is [formation, role, weapon, timing, attack axis], and being ready to flex to a different plan if the first one gets screwed up [such as unplanned threats pop-up], and maintaining overall SA over the operation; all while moving at 300 AGL/360 KIAS; and all this in addition to trying to see and avoid. Truth be told, we really expect (hope) that civilian pilots won't be in our path because they HAVE done the necessary pre-planning for their flights. Even in radar equipped fighters, the pilot isn't sitting with his head in his scope while tooling along at low level, so he may not notice civilian hits on his scope. In addition, some radars are even programmed to negate hits below certain airspeeds, in order to reduce the scope clutter. Also, at the speeds mentioned, I'm moving @6 miles/minute (A-10), or 8-9 miles/minute (other fighters); a Cessna 152 would probable be visibly detectable for only a couple of seconds before I flashed past it. Point? Everyone practice the best see-and-avoid they can; but also civilian pilots should be aware of where Military Training Routes are and, preferably, avoid them. Military pilots should know what their route structure is, and remain within it. PHX airspace (among others) is getting more and more crowded, that's part of the reason for the closure of Williams AFB. And I fully understand that airspace is getting smaller and smaller; hell, most of the state of Arizona is Special Use Airspace of some sort, just look at the PHX sectional. Hopefully, even as this happens, GA and military can still co-exist without conflict. MD --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________ Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. |
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| | #2 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,514
| Speaking of Cessna 152's. A week ago I was flying in Eastern WA and noticed my course would cross and then nearly paralell both a VR and an IR route. I ended up crossing it and then paralelled it maybe 3 miles south for about 10 minutes. I really kept my eyes open and climbed up a little higher. I was probably 1500AGL. I got to thinking it would be nice if I could call FSS and see if anyone was on the route at about the time I was there. Don't think that would work, though. You're too low to be talking to center. You don't have TCAS. Anyhow, it kinda made me nervous for a little while. |
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| | #3 | |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Quote:
__________________ Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. | |
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| | #4 |
| Old Skool | If you can't flight watch on 122.00 is always a good option. |
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| | #5 |
| Junior Member | Thank you for this post. I have a very stupid question, but I can't not ask it. How can you possibly navigate by map at those speeds? And at that low of an altitude? I realize that this is a rather broad question! -C. |
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| | #6 |
| Senior Member | You nav exactly the same as you do at slower speeds. 1st you need to plan the route, by knowing what ground speed you intend to fly, and plot your course along the ground. I put tick marks every 1 minute. Then, as you fly look at the clock first, then to the big features on the map at the time that is shown on the clock. So I'm 6 minutes and 14 seconds into the route and at my 7 minute tick mark there is a tower on the map about 1/2 a mile east of my planned ground track. I climb up just above (500' above) the tower height until I find the tower, and fly just west of it after I see it. I also note to see if I cross it before or after 7 minutes and adjust my speed. Always work clock to map to ground, and never ground to map to clock, because you will convince yourself that EVERY dirt road on the ground is the interstate highway that is depicted on your map!
__________________ Dude, what are you trying to do? Land the airplane or adjust the field elevation? |
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| | #7 |
| Old Skool | Good write up Mike. This is a favorite question on the Oral Private of the DE I goto.
__________________ www.flywhiteair.com http://www.myspace.com/desertdog71 Following message is for SkyCougar. ![]() Took my chances on a big jet plane, Never let them tell you that they're all the same. |
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| | #8 |
| Senior Member | Where I work, we clear aircraft into the route and we have their estimated exit time. Once they commence the route we're not in comm with them anymore. We have low flying aircraft ask us time to time the status if IRxxx.
__________________ Rick |
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| | #9 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,514
| "Can you call the FSS through a local RCO (comm outlet)?" Yeah, I could do that but assume they don't have the info on EA6B's out of NAS Whidbey, for example, and Whidbey approach is on the other side of the Cascades. "We have low flying aircraft ask us time to time the status if IRxxx" Yeah, I think you're working a military/civillian approach type facility, though. What if the MTR extends to the other side of the state. No way for me to talk to you. 122.0 is FSS but it's the weather guy. If they are busy, I'd say it would be poor form to bother them with a non-weather issue. |
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| | #10 | |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Quote:
Agree. One of the problems too is all FSS will have is a scheduled entry and exit time for the route in question. The aircraft using the route make a one time call entering and a one time call exiting on 255.4, which is the general UHF FSS freq. FSS may or may not catch the call, so even if a route is scheduled to be active, there's no real way to confirm if it truly is, and even so, there's no real way to know where the aircraft are on the route, unless you have UHF capability. Furthermore, the straight lines depicted on Sectionals, for example, are only the center of the route. Most MTRs extend several NMs left or right of that centerline, varying.
__________________ Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. | |
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| | #11 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,514
| Well. That's good to know. I just figured FSS wouldn't have any info at all. Next time I'll give them a call. I don't think the MTR that was along my route that day is very busy. If I called the FSS and they said "no activity today on that route", it would give me the warm fuzzies. "Most MTRs extend several NMs left or right of that centerline, varying" What's the most it could be? I decided to offset south of the MTR and fly 1500 AGL during part of the flight. I bet I wasn't more than 4nm south, though, which might not have been enough. |
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| | #12 | |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Quote:
For the calls entering/exiting, most guys don't even know which FSS services the area in question, so the general call on 255.4 goes something like this: "Any radio, any radio, Grip 21 flight of 2 entering VR-244 point Bravo for the next 20 minutes". So, unless someone happens to: 1. Have UHF 2. Have been listening and caught the call 3. Know where the VR or IR route in question is located, & 4. Know where the individual entry/exit points are located.... ...then the call won't be of much help. ![]()
__________________ Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. | |
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| | #13 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,514
| Alright. Good to know about the vertical seperation. I could have gone up to 3000 AGL and not worried about it. Can't think of anywhere in Eastern WA that's noise sensitive. I'd seen EA6B's cruising past concerts at the Gorge in George,WA. You'd think if they were gonna aviod anything, that would be it. It's way cool to watch them, though. One last question. Is an IR route low level, too? |
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| | #14 | |
| Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Quote:
![]() On the altitudes, a good thing to know is the numbering system for MTRs, both VR and IR. If the MTR has a 3-digit number, ie- VR-244, IR-168, that means that there are segments along that route that have portions above 1500 AGL. If the MTR is 4-digit, ie- VR 1288, IR-1403; that means that there are no segments on that route that are above 1500 AGL. Something else that's good to know.
__________________ Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live. | |
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