Magnetoaerodynamics!

CapnJim · December 8th, 2005, 09:45

I've been enamoured of this concept ever since I learned about it's nautical equivalent in The Hunt For Red October. Up until now, I had always figured that the best way to power an aircraft with the thing was to have the ionizing field and the magnets arranged in external pods, like contemprary jet engines. Boy, was I ever shortsighted!

Get this: the new idea is to project an ionizing beam of electromagnetic energy in front of the aircraft, putting the plasma in the relatively undisturbed air ahead of the shockwave. Then, the plasma is pulled past the ship by magnets imbedded in the [i]skin[i] of the aircraft, obviating the need for pods, pylons, or any visible external power source whatsoever!

Get it? The lifting surface and the power source are the same thing! You're no longer hamstrung by drag from the engines, assymetrical thrust, or dependence on the old wing/fuselage arrangment, and you can really get down to a tight squeaky-clean lifting body with tons of room for people, bombs, satellites, or whatever!

Control surfaces? Forget 'em! You can vary the field strength along the magnet arrays and get control by varying lift and thrust at the same time, in the same place. Talk about elegant potential!

I suppose in the beginning the fields will be enengized with electricity generated by some sort of diesel-electric arrangement; a big, fat, APU stuck in the tail driving x-number of generators. It'll take commercial success to drive the technology to the point that less and less juice is needed to power more and more powerful superconducting magnets, but I'm willing to wait.

I wonder how fast the bastard could go? Theoretically, you could make it so aerodynamically clean that the shockwave is marginalized to a point that the sonic boom is less noisy than modern jet aircraft.

SteveC · December 8th, 2005, 10:13

It sounds kinda like throwing a rope up in the air, climbing up it faster then it falls, throw it up farther, climb some more....

BoilerPilot2007 · December 8th, 2005, 10:14

I was thinking of that the other day

Wouldn't the large amount of electromagnetic energy cause problems with instrumentation and other systems onboard?

CapnJim · December 8th, 2005, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

It sounds kinda like throwing a rope up in the air, climbing up it faster then it falls, throw it up farther, climb some more....

Steve, you just described 100 years of aviation perfectly.

And you're right Boiler, that would be an enginering problem throughout. But electromagnetic energy is a wave, and waves can be cancelled- just like the shielding for the compass in an everyday Skyhawk, or more accurately, the ANR in a good headset.

BobDDuck · December 8th, 2005, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

It sounds kinda like throwing a rope up in the air, climbing up it faster then it falls, throw it up farther, climb some more....

That sort of sounds like the Space Elevator

Minuteman · December 9th, 2005, 01:06

Sound like this thing is designed to operate up in the ionosphere ... the old "New York to Hong Kong in two hours" atmospheric skipping spaceplane deal.

What I think is neat is that you could have ground-based stations (lasers?) aimed at the vehicle and have 'em beam energy at the ship's magnetic field to make plasma and save some weight/energy.

Plus, this could have the potential to make for some really exciting birdstrikes.

CapnJim · December 9th, 2005, 07:42

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too. And since plasma density will increase as a function of speed (since you'll be ramming more and more molecules of air the faster you go) the thing could probably get pretty high, going terribly fast, taking advangtage of the low density plasma already present in the ionosphere, (hence the name ionosphere) and you could save even more energy! Essentially, at that point, then damn thing would be solar powered since it's the sun doing all the ionizing.

Fringe benefit: Creating ionized plasma in air produces lots and lots of ozone (like a lightning bolt). These things would be producing literally tens of kilotons of ozone, way up in the upper stratosphere. Food for thought? Maybe get one orbiting around the south pole, do a little 'patchwork' mission? I don't know if the ozone would actually stay up there or sink down like it does near the surface, but it's a fun thought.

PhotoPilot · December 9th, 2005, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerPilot2007

Wouldn't the large amount of electromagnetic energy cause problems with instrumentation and other systems onboard?

Not to mention ripping everyone's ferrous metal belongings away from them . . .

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We're about to start our magnets, so please remove all peircings, take your keys out of your pockets, remove all jewelry, say goodbye to your harddrive contents, get ready to have your credit cards erased, and, if you have pacemakers or other medical implants, you might feel some slight discomfort as they're torn out of your bodies . . ."

Frank_Rizzo · December 9th, 2005, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

That sort of sounds like the Space Elevator

I've heard several shows on Coast about the Space Elevator and in engineering theory it'd be possible. A very similarly exotic idea at its inception was the reversing polarity, magnetic hovering trains and roller coasters (think ones called a MagLEV). Maybe with the great visionaries of the Wright brothers, Hughes, and Lear we can add well...Tyrone Biggums!

December 8th, 2005, 09:45	#1
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: G-town, Near D-town. In T-state... er... whatever Posts: 4,499	Magnetoaerodynamics! I've been enamoured of this concept ever since I learned about it's nautical equivalent in The Hunt For Red October. Up until now, I had always figured that the best way to power an aircraft with the thing was to have the ionizing field and the magnets arranged in external pods, like contemprary jet engines. Boy, was I ever shortsighted! Get this: the new idea is to project an ionizing beam of electromagnetic energy in front of the aircraft, putting the plasma in the relatively undisturbed air ahead of the shockwave. Then, the plasma is pulled past the ship by magnets imbedded in the [i]skin[i] of the aircraft, obviating the need for pods, pylons, or any visible external power source whatsoever! Get it? The lifting surface and the power source are the same thing! You're no longer hamstrung by drag from the engines, assymetrical thrust, or dependence on the old wing/fuselage arrangment, and you can really get down to a tight squeaky-clean lifting body with tons of room for people, bombs, satellites, or whatever! Control surfaces? Forget 'em! You can vary the field strength along the magnet arrays and get control by varying lift and thrust at the same time, in the same place. Talk about elegant potential! I suppose in the beginning the fields will be enengized with electricity generated by some sort of diesel-electric arrangement; a big, fat, APU stuck in the tail driving x-number of generators. It'll take commercial success to drive the technology to the point that less and less juice is needed to power more and more powerful superconducting magnets, but I'm willing to wait. I wonder how fast the bastard could go? Theoretically, you could make it so aerodynamically clean that the shockwave is marginalized to a point that the sonic boom is less noisy than modern jet aircraft.

December 8th, 2005, 10:13	#2
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,630	It sounds kinda like throwing a rope up in the air, climbing up it faster then it falls, throw it up farther, climb some more.... __________________ . If life gives you lemons, throw 'em into a quart of vodka. ~Red Green

December 8th, 2005, 10:14	#3
BoilerPilot2007 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 444	I was thinking of that the other day Wouldn't the large amount of electromagnetic energy cause problems with instrumentation and other systems onboard? __________________ http://www.setlovefree.com

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December 9th, 2005, 01:06	#6
Minuteman Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,523 Blog Entries: 1	Sound like this thing is designed to operate up in the ionosphere ... the old "New York to Hong Kong in two hours" atmospheric skipping spaceplane deal. What I think is neat is that you could have ground-based stations (lasers?) aimed at the vehicle and have 'em beam energy at the ship's magnetic field to make plasma and save some weight/energy. Plus, this could have the potential to make for some really exciting birdstrikes.

December 9th, 2005, 07:42	#7
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: G-town, Near D-town. In T-state... er... whatever Posts: 4,499	Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too. And since plasma density will increase as a function of speed (since you'll be ramming more and more molecules of air the faster you go) the thing could probably get pretty high, going terribly fast, taking advangtage of the low density plasma already present in the ionosphere, (hence the name ionosphere) and you could save even more energy! Essentially, at that point, then damn thing would be solar powered since it's the sun doing all the ionizing. Fringe benefit: Creating ionized plasma in air produces lots and lots of ozone (like a lightning bolt). These things would be producing literally tens of kilotons of ozone, way up in the upper stratosphere. Food for thought? Maybe get one orbiting around the south pole, do a little 'patchwork' mission? I don't know if the ozone would actually stay up there or sink down like it does near the surface, but it's a fun thought.