logging XC time

[project7]

I'm having some trouble figuring this one out. In the FARs, the definition of XC is at least 50nm from point of origin for the ATP. However, I've heard that you can count point-to-point, less than 50nm towards the 500 hours XC required for the ATP, but I can't find anything in the regs to support that. My instructor told me that I can only count 50nm+ XC time until I finish the commercial, then I can count point-to-point after that, but I can't find anything to support that either. Anybody know how logging XC time towards the ATP works?

[Ralgha]

For ATP it has to be greater than 50 NM, BUT (and a big BUT here) you don't have to make any landings away from your point of origin for it to count. For ATP you only have to fly at least 50 NM away from your point of origin, not land. All the other certificates/ratings require a landing for it to count.

BTW your instructor doesn't know what he is talking about. For the purpose of meeting 135 requirements, anything including a landing away from your origin (point-to-point) counts towards the X/C requirements for part 135. Doesn't matter if you have a commercial certificate or not.

[jrh]

For the sake of logging time for ATP, the flight needs to be at least 50 nm away from the point of departure, but does not require a landing. An example of this would be something like search and rescue flying--take off from airport A, fly all over the place, then land back at airport A. There is no allowance for a flight of less than 50 miles.

For the sake of meeting the Part 135 time requirements, a flight only needs to have a landing at another airport to count as cross country, no matter how far away the airport is. For instance, there is a small airport 6 miles away from the larger airport that I teach out of. If I go into that airport for touch and goes with a student, the whole flight counts towards the Part 135 XC minimums.

As far as what your instructor was saying about logging time after the commercial certificate, he might have been wrong, or you might have misunderstood. Time is time, regardless of the certificate you hold. However, cross country flights towards the private, instrument, and commercial certificates must have a landing at least 50 nm away. So it would be confusing to log all of the "Part 135, less than 50 nm" flights as cross country. When you go for your commercial checkride, you'll have to dig through each entry and figure out which flights were over 50 nm and which ones weren't.

After getting your commercial license, you'll probably be looking to meet the Part 135 minimums, so some people start writing any flights with a landing other than the point of departure as cross country. I prefer to do that in my electronic logbook and only record the 50+ nm flights in my paper logbook for the same reason I stated above about going for the commercial checkride--when I go for my ATP, I don't want to sort through a bunch of little 10 mile hops logged as cross country time that do not count for ATP.

I don't have time to break it all down into specific regs, but all of this is based on Part 61.1(b)(3).

[MidlifeFlyer]

See if my cross country landing FAQ clears it up for you.

http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=2#1

[project7]

[ QUOTE ]
For the sake of meeting the Part 135 time requirements, a flight only needs to have a landing at another airport to count as cross country, no matter how far away the airport is. For instance, there is a small airport 6 miles away from the larger airport that I teach out of. If I go into that airport for touch and goes with a student, the whole flight counts towards the Part 135 XC minimums.



[/ QUOTE ]

Is this spelled out somewhere in the FARs, or is it because the FARs do not specifically say that it has to be 50nm for the 135 requirements?

FYI, I'm asking about this because I generally land at other airports on pretty much every flight I've been doing, but they usually are less than 50nm. I noticed my instructor was filling out my logbook as "local". If I can count these flights toward something then I'd like to make sure that I'm taking advantage of it.

[MidlifeFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]
or is it because the FARs do not specifically say that it has to be 50nm for the 135 requirements?

[/ QUOTE ]That's it. Unless there is a "special" definition of what qualifies, point to point is it.

[ QUOTE ]
FYI, I'm asking about this because I generally land at other airports on pretty much every flight I've been doing, but they usually are less than 50nm. I noticed my instructor was filling out my logbook as "local".

[/ QUOTE ]Interesting. While I do not bother putting the 50 NM or less flight into the cross-country column, I only use "local" to describe flights with no landings other than the origination airport. If I land at another airport I mention the airport. That's how I keep track of Part 135 cross countries - if it doesn't say "local" it can be counted (electronic logbook).

I've never heard of the way your CFI uses "local." Doesn't really matter since it' snot an official term anyway. But ask your CFI how he would write up a flight where he flew an airplane to another airport 30 NM away for maintenance and rode back on a bus. I'm curious.

[project7]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. While I do not bother putting the 50 NM or less flight into the cross-country column, I only use "local" to describe flights with no landings other than the origination airport. If I land at another airport I mention the airport. That's how I keep track of Part 135 cross countries - if it doesn't say "local" it can be counted (electronic logbook).


[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly how I've always done it. I corrected my logbook from the "local" entries my CFI put in so I'll be able to total up the point-to-point hours someday.

[ QUOTE ]
I've never heard of the way your CFI uses "local." Doesn't really matter since it' snot an official term anyway. But ask your CFI how he would write up a flight where he flew an airplane to another airport 30 NM away for maintenance and rode back on a bus. I'm curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

My CFI is a citation captain with a bazillion hours who only instructs because he enjoys teaching. I think that since hours haven't been of any concern to him for so long that he doesn't really worry about little details like this.

Thanks for the info guys!