Quick IFR Alternate question

hokiepilot · January 30th, 2005, 20:35

Hey guys,

Quick question. How do you determine your need for an alternate when IFR (1-2-3 rule), if your destination airport does not issue TAFs?

D

EatSleepFly · January 30th, 2005, 20:47

Area Forecast.

bluelake · January 30th, 2005, 21:49

EatSleepFly is right. But it's even broader than that...

Go to your CFR's (91.169c) and you will see that the operative phrase is "approprate weather reports OR forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate...."

to me, this phrase is important. As a 135 guy, it lets me launch when the AF is BAD but the ASOS is good, or vice versa. Likewise, it tells me to be cautious and list an alternate even when the ASOS is all rosy.

On flights with really short legs (like 30 minutes) the ASOS NOWcast is often more useful than the AF. But like the reg reads, the safest way is to use them all in concert and make a safe and REALISTIC determination.

DeanR

hokiepilot · January 30th, 2005, 21:56

Cool! Thanks for the info

bluelake · January 30th, 2005, 22:01

hey not a problem

by the way.. in my own application of the wiggle room provided by the "appropriate" and "combination" phrase, I have learned as a line cargo pilot that this CFR section is both your friend and also potentially your enemy if something goes wrong. Like i said above, do whats safe. Improving your own meteorology-sense will help a lot also in thie regard

Cheers. DeanR

bike21 · February 11th, 2005, 18:10

Everyone is right on with the answers...some other real-life things to consider....

A good alternate could also have...

- wx that is not downwind of forecast movement (consider backtracking for an alternate if necessary - especially for east bound flights with frontal movement)
- multiple runways
- multiple approaches
- if you are using GPS some non-GPS approaches (regs)
- accomodations nearby (better to be comfy in a hotel room than freezing in your a/c when the FBO is closed and try to T/O in crappy weather - you are much more likely to develop get-home-itis if you can't relax and wait the wx out)

Happy flying!

Seggy · February 11th, 2005, 19:32

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is right on with the answers...some other real-life things to consider....

A good alternate could also have...

- wx that is not downwind of forecast movement (consider backtracking for an alternate if necessary - especially for east bound flights with frontal movement)
- multiple runways
- multiple approaches
- if you are using GPS some non-GPS approaches (regs)
- accomodations nearby (better to be comfy in a hotel room than freezing in your a/c when the FBO is closed and try to T/O in crappy weather - you are much more likely to develop get-home-itis if you can't relax and wait the wx out)

Happy flying!

[/ QUOTE ]

A BIG thing in my alternate strategy is if the airport has a control tower that will be open at the time you think you might need to divert there. I want to make sure somebody knows that I'm still out there!

bike21 · February 18th, 2005, 14:44

[ QUOTE ]

A BIG thing in my alternate strategy is if the airport has a control tower that will be open at the time you think you might need to divert there. I want to make sure somebody knows that I'm still out there!

[/ QUOTE ]

Another good idea for sure, anyone have any others?

MikeD · February 18th, 2005, 21:14

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A BIG thing in my alternate strategy is if the airport has a control tower that will be open at the time you think you might need to divert there. I want to make sure somebody knows that I'm still out there!

[/ QUOTE ]

Another good idea for sure, anyone have any others?

[/ QUOTE ]

Consider, though, that a number of airports without a control tower might possibly be Alternate NA due to no monitoring of the navaids for their approaches (GPS only not allowed), and possibly due to no WX reporting capability if there's no AWOS/ASOS.

January 30th, 2005, 20:35	#1
hokiepilot Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 43	Quick IFR Alternate question Hey guys, Quick question. How do you determine your need for an alternate when IFR (1-2-3 rule), if your destination airport does not issue TAFs? D

January 30th, 2005, 20:47	#2
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question Area Forecast.

January 30th, 2005, 21:49	#3
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question EatSleepFly is right. But it's even broader than that... Go to your CFR's (91.169c) and you will see that the operative phrase is "approprate weather reports OR forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate...." to me, this phrase is important. As a 135 guy, it lets me launch when the AF is BAD but the ASOS is good, or vice versa. Likewise, it tells me to be cautious and list an alternate even when the ASOS is all rosy. On flights with really short legs (like 30 minutes) the ASOS NOWcast is often more useful than the AF. But like the reg reads, the safest way is to use them all in concert and make a safe and REALISTIC determination. DeanR

January 30th, 2005, 21:56	#4
hokiepilot Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 43	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question Cool! Thanks for the info

January 30th, 2005, 22:01	#5
bluelake Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 619	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question hey not a problem by the way.. in my own application of the wiggle room provided by the "appropriate" and "combination" phrase, I have learned as a line cargo pilot that this CFR section is both your friend and also potentially your enemy if something goes wrong. Like i said above, do whats safe. Improving your own meteorology-sense will help a lot also in thie regard Cheers. DeanR

February 11th, 2005, 18:10	#6
bike21 Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: People's Republic of Boulder Posts: 2,260	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question Everyone is right on with the answers...some other real-life things to consider.... A good alternate could also have... - wx that is not downwind of forecast movement (consider backtracking for an alternate if necessary - especially for east bound flights with frontal movement) - multiple runways - multiple approaches - if you are using GPS some non-GPS approaches (regs) - accomodations nearby (better to be comfy in a hotel room than freezing in your a/c when the FBO is closed and try to T/O in crappy weather - you are much more likely to develop get-home-itis if you can't relax and wait the wx out) Happy flying!

February 11th, 2005, 19:32	#7
Seggy Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Somewhere in the Northeast Posts: 5,104	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question [ QUOTE ] Everyone is right on with the answers...some other real-life things to consider.... A good alternate could also have... - wx that is not downwind of forecast movement (consider backtracking for an alternate if necessary - especially for east bound flights with frontal movement) - multiple runways - multiple approaches - if you are using GPS some non-GPS approaches (regs) - accomodations nearby (better to be comfy in a hotel room than freezing in your a/c when the FBO is closed and try to T/O in crappy weather - you are much more likely to develop get-home-itis if you can't relax and wait the wx out) Happy flying! [/ QUOTE ] A BIG thing in my alternate strategy is if the airport has a control tower that will be open at the time you think you might need to divert there. I want to make sure somebody knows that I'm still out there!

February 18th, 2005, 14:44	#8
bike21 Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: People's Republic of Boulder Posts: 2,260	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question [ QUOTE ] A BIG thing in my alternate strategy is if the airport has a control tower that will be open at the time you think you might need to divert there. I want to make sure somebody knows that I'm still out there! [/ QUOTE ] Another good idea for sure, anyone have any others?

February 18th, 2005, 21:14	#9
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Quick IFR Alternate question [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A BIG thing in my alternate strategy is if the airport has a control tower that will be open at the time you think you might need to divert there. I want to make sure somebody knows that I'm still out there! [/ QUOTE ] Another good idea for sure, anyone have any others? [/ QUOTE ] Consider, though, that a number of airports without a control tower might possibly be Alternate NA due to no monitoring of the navaids for their approaches (GPS only not allowed), and possibly due to no WX reporting capability if there's no AWOS/ASOS.

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