Holding reporting requirements

[aviategw]

Do you have to announce an entry into a hold? I've done it sometimes and got good responses from controllers, and I've had irritated responses from controllers. AIM 5-3-7 f says that:

"Pilots should report to ATC the time and altitude/flight level at which the aircraft reaches the clearance limit and reporting leaving the limit."

I've had different CFIIs tell me different things. I don't think it hurts anything, other than clogging up the freq, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm the colossal super nerd when I do report 'entering the hold.' I don't seem to hear too many other pilots reporting entering and leaving the hold, what do you guys think?

(roll tide)

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have to announce an entry into a hold? I've done it sometimes and got good responses from controllers, and I've had irritated responses from controllers. AIM 5-3-7 f says that:

"Pilots should report to ATC the time and altitude/flight level at which the aircraft reaches the clearance limit and reporting leaving the limit."

I've had different CFIIs tell me different things. I don't think it hurts anything, other than clogging up the freq, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm the colossal super nerd when I do report 'entering the hold.' I don't seem to hear too many other pilots reporting entering and leaving the hold, what do you guys think?

(roll tide)

[/ QUOTE ]

"Entering the hold" is too much radio verbology. callsign/fix/"holding" is all that's needed. I report, for example if holding at SMATI intersection. "(callsign), SMATI, holding." I'll then report "commencing the approach" if departing the IAF. I do it as a matter of course, but it seems to mainly be expected if ATC radar is out, and some controllers seem annoyed by it, others just acknowlege. I still do it anyway using clear/concise/correct terminology.

[aviategw]

Ahhh, good tip, thanks.

I don't see anything in Part 91 requiring a notification, but the AIM passage was a little ambiguous.

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh, good tip, thanks.

I don't see anything in Part 91 requiring a notification, but the AIM passage was a little ambiguous.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you're right, the passage is somewhat ambiguous in terms of why some controllers would welcome it, others be annoyed by it.....especially if it is intended to be a required call.

[ananoman]

I tend to omit notifying ATC when entering a hold during a training flight in which I have asked for the hold, and been given holding instructions. ATC knows that you are holding, and often seems annoyed when you announce that you are at the fix.

It would be more important in a non radar environment for obvious reasons, and would be good practice on an actual missed approach that you did not request for training purposes.

With students, you are probably better off having them announce entering the hold, just to build good habit patterns. If they are a more advanced student, you can probably get away with omitting the report.

[kellwolf]

I normally report if I know I'm entering a busy hold (MAMBO in Orlando is notoriously busy). Might be a tad bit on the anal side, but at least it gives the controller a reminder that there is yet another plane in the stack. I'll also announce on checkrides and in IMC. Anything else, I'll just start the hold.

[Ophir]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be more important in a non radar environment for obvious reasons, and would be good practice on an actual missed approach that you did not request for training purposes.


[/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. But one thing that gets me is that you cannot find MVA for sectors unless you get it from ATC. I wish they could give you that in a map. Imagine flying into a rural airport knowing, "Ok, right here is where they will be lossing radar contact on me."