Procedure Turn

GaTechKid · September 9th, 2004, 14:59

What is the maximum allowable airspeed in a procedure turn?

EatSleepFly · September 9th, 2004, 15:39

200 knots.

AIM 5-4-8a2

GaTechKid · September 9th, 2004, 15:45

mucho gracias

EatSleepFly · September 9th, 2004, 15:52

No problemo! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

MikeD · September 9th, 2004, 16:35

[ QUOTE ]
200 knots.

AIM 5-4-8a2

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is generally why I always get the "Procedure Turn NA for Cat E aircraft" on IAPs that have a PT depicted as well as Cat E mins. Teardrop procedure tracks and penetration tracks are all we usually can negotiate and still maintain the "remain within" distance.

aloft · September 13th, 2004, 17:05

The stinkbug's Cat E? Learn sum'm new ever'day! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

MikeD · September 13th, 2004, 17:56

[ QUOTE ]
The stinkbug's Cat E? Learn sum'm new ever'day! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Heck yeah! The thing practically has no wing! We rival the F-104 in approach speeds!

Doug Taylor · September 13th, 2004, 18:01

Here's a question for ya, Mikey!

Being a part of the A-10 community (which is another beast compared to the pretty boys in the Vipers), are there any adjustment problems? Or is it that Hog drivers are kind of maverick-types anyway it's an easy fit?

MikeD · September 13th, 2004, 18:09

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question for ya, Mikey!

Being a part of the A-10 community (which is another beast compared to the pretty boys in the Vipers), are there any adjustment problems? Or is it that Hog drivers are kind of maverick-types anyway it's an easy fit?

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest adjustment problem was the heavy automation regards FMS, glass cockpit, heavy autopilot usage, etc. The jet flies differently than the straight-wing Hog. It doesn't "talk" to you at all. For example, the cockpit is sealed so tightly, that 190 knots and 480 knots sounds the same. Consequently, because all the flying is at night operationally, you lose one of your most basic "safety clues" to recognize when you're in an nose-down unusual attitude in the event your instruments were to fail. In the Hog, I could get a slight breeze from under the canopy seal in some of the jets, and consequently wind noise. In any event, you could definately tell the difference between slow and fast from the noise.

That being said, the missions of each respective airframe, though both air to ground, are entirely different.

Doug Taylor · September 13th, 2004, 18:12

Ignore this if it's classified, but are we still using 'dial a nukes' or is that just post-Vietnam junk?

MikeD · September 13th, 2004, 18:14

[ QUOTE ]
Ignore this if it's classified, but are we still using 'dial a nukes' or is that just post-Vietnam junk?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nukes are still around, and the 117 has provision to carry them. There's still the consent panel in the cockpit. Currently, we don't due to not being able to meet the "2 man rule" when it comes to nuke handling.

Doug Taylor · September 13th, 2004, 18:19

One of my pals back in DFW flew F-106's and he'd say they'd practice the 'lob' manuever where they'd scream supersonic a few yards off hte ground, start a climb manuever, release on the vertical, roll out and haul ass 180 degrees from the entry point.

He said something like "Hell, if I had to actually do that, I'd release, climb up and watch the "Big Show" because if you survived the blast, you certainly didn't have an airfield to go back to or even a nation".

It's always interesting hearing the "War hawk" perspectives about limited exchanges and survivability and then hearing the perspectives of guys doing the actual "work" that knew that once the party started, it was game over!

MikeD · September 13th, 2004, 18:25

[ QUOTE ]
One of my pals back in DFW flew F-106's and he'd say they'd practice the 'lob' manuever where they'd scream supersonic a few yards off hte ground, start a climb manuever, release on the vertical, roll out and haul ass 180 degrees from the entry point.

He said something like "Hell, if I had to actually do that, I'd release, climb up and watch the "Big Show" because if you survived the blast, you certainly didn't have an airfield to go back to or even a nation".

It's always interesting hearing the "War hawk" perspectives about limited exchanges and survivability and then hearing the perspectives of guys doing the actual "work" that knew that once the party started, it was game over!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sort of like the guys in the missile silos. What's your job supposed to be after you've "turned the key"? Are you still a missileer, seeing as how you have no more missiles to be in charge of?

September 9th, 2004, 14:59	#1
GaTechKid Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Frigid NWA Hub Posts: 1,885	Procedure Turn What is the maximum allowable airspeed in a procedure turn?

September 9th, 2004, 15:39	#2
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Procedure Turn 200 knots. AIM 5-4-8a2

September 9th, 2004, 15:45	#3
GaTechKid Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Frigid NWA Hub Posts: 1,885	Re: Procedure Turn mucho gracias

September 9th, 2004, 15:52	#4
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Procedure Turn No problemo! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

September 9th, 2004, 16:35	#5
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Procedure Turn [ QUOTE ] 200 knots. AIM 5-4-8a2 [/ QUOTE ] Which is generally why I always get the "Procedure Turn NA for Cat E aircraft" on IAPs that have a PT depicted as well as Cat E mins. Teardrop procedure tracks and penetration tracks are all we usually can negotiate and still maintain the "remain within" distance.

September 13th, 2004, 17:05	#6
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 7,009	Re: Procedure Turn The stinkbug's Cat E? Learn sum'm new ever'day! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

September 13th, 2004, 17:56	#7
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Procedure Turn [ QUOTE ] The stinkbug's Cat E? Learn sum'm new ever'day! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Heck yeah! The thing practically has no wing! We rival the F-104 in approach speeds!

September 13th, 2004, 18:01	#8
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,186 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Procedure Turn Here's a question for ya, Mikey! Being a part of the A-10 community (which is another beast compared to the pretty boys in the Vipers), are there any adjustment problems? Or is it that Hog drivers are kind of maverick-types anyway it's an easy fit?

September 13th, 2004, 18:09	#9
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Procedure Turn [ QUOTE ] Here's a question for ya, Mikey! Being a part of the A-10 community (which is another beast compared to the pretty boys in the Vipers), are there any adjustment problems? Or is it that Hog drivers are kind of maverick-types anyway it's an easy fit? [/ QUOTE ] The biggest adjustment problem was the heavy automation regards FMS, glass cockpit, heavy autopilot usage, etc. The jet flies differently than the straight-wing Hog. It doesn't "talk" to you at all. For example, the cockpit is sealed so tightly, that 190 knots and 480 knots sounds the same. Consequently, because all the flying is at night operationally, you lose one of your most basic "safety clues" to recognize when you're in an nose-down unusual attitude in the event your instruments were to fail. In the Hog, I could get a slight breeze from under the canopy seal in some of the jets, and consequently wind noise. In any event, you could definately tell the difference between slow and fast from the noise. That being said, the missions of each respective airframe, though both air to ground, are entirely different.

September 13th, 2004, 18:12	#10
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,186 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Procedure Turn Ignore this if it's classified, but are we still using 'dial a nukes' or is that just post-Vietnam junk?

September 13th, 2004, 18:14	#11
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Procedure Turn [ QUOTE ] Ignore this if it's classified, but are we still using 'dial a nukes' or is that just post-Vietnam junk? [/ QUOTE ] Nukes are still around, and the 117 has provision to carry them. There's still the consent panel in the cockpit. Currently, we don't due to not being able to meet the "2 man rule" when it comes to nuke handling.

September 13th, 2004, 18:19	#12
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,186 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Procedure Turn One of my pals back in DFW flew F-106's and he'd say they'd practice the 'lob' manuever where they'd scream supersonic a few yards off hte ground, start a climb manuever, release on the vertical, roll out and haul ass 180 degrees from the entry point. He said something like "Hell, if I had to actually do that, I'd release, climb up and watch the "Big Show" because if you survived the blast, you certainly didn't have an airfield to go back to or even a nation". It's always interesting hearing the "War hawk" perspectives about limited exchanges and survivability and then hearing the perspectives of guys doing the actual "work" that knew that once the party started, it was game over!

September 13th, 2004, 18:25	#13
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Procedure Turn [ QUOTE ] One of my pals back in DFW flew F-106's and he'd say they'd practice the 'lob' manuever where they'd scream supersonic a few yards off hte ground, start a climb manuever, release on the vertical, roll out and haul ass 180 degrees from the entry point. He said something like "Hell, if I had to actually do that, I'd release, climb up and watch the "Big Show" because if you survived the blast, you certainly didn't have an airfield to go back to or even a nation". It's always interesting hearing the "War hawk" perspectives about limited exchanges and survivability and then hearing the perspectives of guys doing the actual "work" that knew that once the party started, it was game over! [/ QUOTE ] Sort of like the guys in the missile silos. What's your job supposed to be after you've "turned the key"? Are you still a missileer, seeing as how you have no more missiles to be in charge of?

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