pricing "estimate" on website

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, this has been bothering me for a while. It's nothing major. But it bothers me all the same.

From the instrument rating course page:

"Note: All prices and times required are an approximation.
Totals are based on the average cost of obtaining the Instrument Rating.
The price may be more or less depending in the individual needs of each student and aircraft flown.
The above estimates are based on the minimums under part 141 of the Federal Aviation Regulations."

Okay so if the price estimates are based on the minimums under part 141, how is it possible for an actual price to be less than that? A minimum can't equal an average. Unless everyone passes at the minimum. Am I missing something here?

[LoadMasterC141]

I noticed the same thing and agree completely. If you read my thread asking questions about pricing down a bit, it also did not seem to all add up. Makes kitty nervous!

[todd584]

I got the impression while I was there that those were high estimates. I started with a ppl and got my instructor ratings. Personally, my training costs came under the website projected cost by about $2500.

At Skymates you don't sign a contract, or even have to pay in full before starting. If you add up the cost for the instrument rating from what is quoted on the website, it comes out a good $500 under. They don't want you going over cost so there's some backup planned in. If you finish close to the mins you can use that money leftover for your checkride (which isn't included in the price). Those will range 380-500 depending on the examiner and the length of the flight.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally Posted by todd584

I got the impression while I was there that those were high estimates. I started with a ppl and got my instructor ratings. Personally, my training costs came under the website projected cost by about $2500.

At Skymates you don't sign a contract, or even have to pay in full before starting. If you add up the cost for the instrument rating from what is quoted on the website, it comes out a good $500 under. They don't want you going over cost so there's some backup planned in. If you finish close to the mins you can use that money leftover for your checkride (which isn't included in the price). Those will range 380-500 depending on the examiner and the length of the flight.

So then the prices must not be based on the 141 minimums. If there's extra built in to the price, it's only logical that they are basing their prices on something higher than the mins (average). But the way the website words it, it sounds like they are trying to do it both ways. It's a little confusing.

I'm all for pricing based on an average time to complete a rating. I wish more schools would do that.

[CapnJim]

I don't think it's intended to be confusing. Luca essentially has two schools, a part 141 school and a part 61 school. The quotes for the 141 stuff are based on the FAA minimum, plus a little more since some people can't get it done by the specified mins. As for the 61 stuff, it's based on a rough average of how much people usually use to get each rating under part 61 rules. Most estimates are high, because Luca dosen't want to get the reputation of quoting one price and then nickel-and-diming you several thousand more like most other schools do.

The trouble is, how do you advertise a price that's honest without running the risk of people saying "Pffft! Pan-American-Flyer-Academy quoted $2,000 less! I'm going there!!!"? So a balance has to be struck by quoting a price that most people will be able to get finished in, without looking like you're overcharging. Then, you have to come up with two prices for the pt141 and pt61 programs, and then make the advertising as simple as possible for people who have no idea what you're talking about. Confused yet?

The bottom line is, they want to do things as honestly and fairly as possible. You'll get the exact ratings and hours you pay for, and how fast and efficiently you do them is totally up to you: how quick you learn, how often you fly, and how hard you study. There's no milking, and none of the old "Hmm, well, we need to do such-and-such flight for so-and-so as part of our "Special Program".." If you've still got questions, I'd say give 'em a call. Ryan or Luca are really good about explaining things plainly and simply without a big B.S. sales pitch, and can probably do a better job than I just did.

[hank1292]

In the flight training world there are too many places that advertise in a questionable manner. Too many empty promises. Guaranteed interveiws, ratings for X dollars when they know that it will cost more etc. Skymates is a different kind of place. As a former instructor along with CapnJim and several others I have nothing to gain but still feel good speaking up in a case like this. Luca (the owner of Skymates) has always tried to give a real and accurate estimate of cost to the customers. Not all students/customers are created equal. Any instructor in the country can tell you this. It should not cost every student/customer the same amount to get the same rating. (There are a few ratings like Multi or MEI that can be generic packaged for the majority of customers) Some just get it and some take a lot more coaching. 2 years ago when I was an instructor there and Luca was putting together the basis for the current programs he was very insistant that the estimates be real world. Not based on the fictional fantasy world of bare mins. However just like Jim said above it is hard to advertise higher prices in this industry. (Even if they are more realistic) A happy median has to be struck. All of that being said, if you have questions call them. Like I said before, not every student/customer is the same. Almost everyone has a little bit different idea of what they need in their flight training. Skymates can and will meet those needs if you give them a chance. (usually at a great price too)

[Captain_Bob]

What's up? You still flying for the same company? Been stuck in Saltillo lately?

[hank1292]

Nope. Moved up the food chain a little. Driving a Lear 60 for Flexjet now. Lovin it.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by hank1292

Nope. Moved up the food chain a little. Driving a Lear 60 for Flexjet now. Lovin it.

Nice!