Cleared as filed...

[jonny]

So, there I was. Flying along in IMC when the controller clears me direct to a fix, then as filed. I query him, "direct (fix) then direct (destination)". He says no, cleared direct to the fix, then another fix, then another fix, then destination. I said "ok, well I filed direct". The response was something along the lines of "well what was your clearance?". I read the clearance as given to me by clearance delivery (different from what I filed) and he just repeats the previous sentence (several different fixes, only one of which was on my original clearance).

My question is: When "cleared as filed" am I cleared as I originally filed on the flight plan (direct) or am I cleared via whatever clearance delivery gave me? I guess I should know the answer after 2000 hours, but I don't have a 7110 handy so any opinions?

[ATCJefe]

Originally Posted by jonny

So, there I was. Flying along in IMC when the controller clears me direct to a fix, then as filed. I query him, "direct (fix) then direct (destination)". He says no, cleared direct to the fix, then another fix, then another fix, then destination. I said "ok, well I filed direct". The response was something along the lines of "well what was your clearance?". I read the clearance as given to me by clearance delivery (different from what I filed) and he just repeats the previous sentence (several different fixes, only one of which was on my original clearance).

My question is: When "cleared as filed" am I cleared as I originally filed on the flight plan (direct) or am I cleared via whatever clearance delivery gave me? I guess I should know the answer after 2000 hours, but I don't have a 7110 handy so any opinions?

The amended clearance that CD gave you is what is "on file" therefore when "cleared as filed" use that clearance. Or, if amended in flight, use the most recent amendment.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by ATCJefe

The amended clearance that CD gave you is what is "on file" therefore when "cleared as filed" use that clearance. Or, if amended in flight, use the most recent amendment.

Well that's not what "as filed" means to us pilots, so somebody better mediate between the two groups. When I'm told "as filed," I bust out the release and fly the route that's on it, because that is what was "filed." I've never, ever, had a controller tell me "as filed" at any time other than when giving me the initial IFR clearance. When they change something after that, it's always "the rest unchanged," or "remained of the arrival," or "as previously cleared," or "own nav."

[davolijj]

To me "as filed" means just that, what you the pilot filed with flight service. That's why whenever I give a routing change for someone enroute I'll say, "...cleared direct (fix) direct (fix on route) rest of route unchanged."

I also don't think controllers should be using the phrase "as filed" after the initial clearance has been given, epecially during the enroute phase - it's confusing. It's not in the book but frequently you'll also hear controllers say the following,

"cleared direct (fix), flight plan route," or
"cleared direct (fix) on course."

JD

[LISRAREF]

It should have been "Cleared Direct XXX, Rest of Route Unchanged".

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by LISRAREF

It should have been "Cleared Direct XXX, Rest of Route Unchanged".

[///AMG]

Agree with the others, as filed means the route you "filed".....not some ammendment that was given by CD or other ATC entity. Sounds like your controller was mistaking teminology. Good on you for verifying what he meant though, I would have probably just flown my original filed route once he said that (which clearly would have created problems according to your story).

[floridaCFII]

Remember...

"Avenue F" from your IFR training:

Assigned
Vectored
Expected
Filed

The definition of filed is exactly what you thought it was. Good job asking for clarification!

[jonny]

Originally Posted by floridaCFII

Remember...

"Avenue F" from your IFR training:

Assigned
Vectored
Expected
Filed

The definition of filed is exactly what you thought it was. Good job asking for clarification!

Haha, well, when something doesn't make sense somebody somwhere is confused or flat out wrong. It was funny because the controller kinda got snippy about me telling him that I filed direct, it was something along the lines of "i know you filed direct but what was your clearance?" I was just kinda laughing on the inside like, ok, what the heck do you want me to do? Good times.

One more thing about AVEF, if you have been given a clearance in the air (after your original clearance) I am almost positive that you are supposed to fly the new clearance. Especially if they give you a fix that wasn't on your original filing. It would be kind of tough to fly what you originally filed when you're going to a fix that wasn't in any clearance that you received except for when the controller changes the clearance.

[ATCJefe]

Originally Posted by ATCJefe

The amended clearance that CD gave you is what is "on file" therefore when "cleared as filed" use that clearance. Or, if amended in flight, use the most recent amendment.

Yeah, ignore my last. I had just gotten home from a straight shot driving from Phoenix to Houston. I probably shouldn't have been operating a computer let alone a vehicle at that point. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Bernoulli Fan]

On a related point, what exactly is the purpose of filing an IFR flight plan? Maybe it's just the congestion of the New York area, but we filed a route around weather concerns, and when we got our clearance, it was a completely different route -- the route we were specifically trying to avoid.

When I refused the clearance and told them we filed 100 nm out of our way for a good reason, the controller said, "Oh, they won't vector you through any thunderstorms."

Yeah, ok. My student just got done watching a lesson CD on how not to rely on ATC to vector you around weather. I think I heard something about the idea of PIC at some point too. Instead of "preferred routes" in the back of the A/FD, should it be "The Only Route"?

So I had to shut down, call flight service and file to some other airport along the route we wanted. The clearance delivery guy said he literally could not give us any routing toward the north for our destination. Is this some flaw in the system? Or is it just New York?

[genot]

Originally Posted by Bernoulli Fan

On a related point, what exactly is the purpose of filing an IFR flight plan? Maybe it's just the congestion of the New York area, but we filed a route around weather concerns, and when we got our clearance, it was a completely different route -- the route we were specifically trying to avoid.

When I refused the clearance and told them we filed 100 nm out of our way for a good reason, the controller said, "Oh, they won't vector you through any thunderstorms."


So I had to shut down, call flight service and file to some other airport along the route we wanted. The clearance delivery guy said he literally could not give us any routing toward the north for our destination. Is this some flaw in the system? Or is it just New York?

Either you filed from an airport predetermined to get PDR or filed high enough to get a DP. There are a thousand things that could force your routing to something other than what is desireable. Honestly its all up to a computer as to what you get with very little human input. We have guys that daily file a routing at altitude below our DP restriction then ask for higher knowing full well its the only way to run direct at optimum altitude. I'll work that out in a hearbeat. Given what you're describing with WX its a swap situation or all one route. As a controller though, if the WX is bad enough that I'm forcing heavy and large categories on 300 mile detours, sorry man but fat chance I'm going to be comfortable with a C 172 flying a route the last 500 Jets have skirted around. That route is shut down. That doesn't come from me, but from TMU. If I get told one of my DPs gets shut down to single route, it isn't me but someone else saying business isn't as usual.

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by jonny

So, there I was. Flying along in IMC when the controller clears me direct to a fix, then as filed. I query him, "direct (fix) then direct (destination)". He says no, cleared direct to the fix, then another fix, then another fix, then destination. I said "ok, well I filed direct". The response was something along the lines of "well what was your clearance?". I read the clearance as given to me by clearance delivery (different from what I filed) and he just repeats the previous sentence (several different fixes, only one of which was on my original clearance).

My question is: When "cleared as filed" am I cleared as I originally filed on the flight plan (direct) or am I cleared via whatever clearance delivery gave me? I guess I should know the answer after 2000 hours, but I don't have a 7110 handy so any opinions?

I've never heard of an en-route controller giving you a clearance based on what you originally filed, they can only see what has been given to you on the amendment when you pick up the IFR clearance. It might be confusing to you but to the ATC, it's a given maybe that's why he might have been annoyed.

[jonny]

Yeah, the routing wasn't that big of a deal as it was all approach controllers the whole way and we usually end up getting vectors after about 1 fix.

My issue was just in trying to figure out what he WANTED me to do, I would have been happy to do it, I just needed to know where he wanted me to go. He seemed to already know that I had filed direct, but was given something else. It def. would have been more clear if he would have said "rest of route unchanged" or "fly planned route". Either way, the clearance he gave me after the "as filed" debacle was different from the one I received from CD. Oh well, no harm no foul. Oh yeah, I'm taking the ATSAT next weekend... Irony.

[tykrtr]

Originally Posted by jonny

He seemed to already know that I had filed direct, but was given something else. It def. would have been more clear if he would have said "rest of route unchanged" or "fly planned route".

He probably guessed you'd filed direct, and he certainly SHOULD have said "rest of route unchanged" or even "then on course." I also wouldn't read too much into his apparent disdain for your aviation abilities -- there are lots of things that "annoy" controllers. "Cleared as filed" means exactly what pilots think it means, it's what YOU filed (not what's on file). Getting 'direct' in the northeast just ain't gonna happen. On the other hand, most of the time Clearance will amend your destination if you ask and give you a route to your new 'destination' until you change it enroute. I know pilots that will file direct to LGA or TEB knowing full well that Center will change the route at least twice on the way. Oh, and Bernoulli fan -- it's New York. Welcome.

Good luck on the ATSAT!