assigned heading

[Baronpilot244]

OK. So here is the scenario: N123AB departs XYZ on an IFR flight plan flying runway heading and is handed off to departure. Departure controller reports radar contact turn right Hdg 270, climb and maintain 4,000. Leveling at 4000 the controller says turn right, heading 230 contact approach 123.45.

Pilot of N123AB checks on level 4000.

The flight is a repositioning flight to a satellite airport about 25nm away and usual practice is to clear the flight through Class B airspace and through a corridor over the main airport on a heading of 180.

As the flight progresses the pilot realizes the heading he is on is not taking him directly over the top of the main airport but he assumes the controller has reasons for not issuing a heading of 180. However, being cautious, our hero keys the mic and broadcasts to the controller that N123AB is on a 230 heading - FYI! The controller does not respond to this radio call and is then busy with other aircraft.

Suddenly the Traffic system in N123AB alerts the pilot to traffic bearing down on him - it is too late, he realizes he is slap in the arrival path of airliners on approach to the main airport and they are within 1 - 200 feet of his altitude.
The controller now comes alive and begins issuing traffic alerts to the pilot of N123AB. The situation is not good and a large airliner has to take evasive action but doesn't have to completely abort the approach.

After things have settled down the pilot of N123AB calls the controller once again. The controller does not reply, so our hero tries again and then a third time. Finally the controller responds and our hero asks the controller if he missed an instruction.
The controller replies, no you didn't - I missed turning you, but thanks for helping me out avoiding all that traffic.

Now! This is not to try and figure out who was at fault but to look at how this could be avoided and here are a few questions to help us along:

1 When checking on with a controller when the flight is on an assigned heading is it imperative that the pilot inform the controller of his heading, even if he wasn't asked to do so by the previous controller?

2 Do controllers automatically inform the next sector of the flight's altitude and heading (if on an assigned vector)

3 What would you as the pilot do? Would you turn to the heading that you assume is going to be given - i.e. 180 as you know that is where you are supposed to be.

4 Do you think the pilot did enough to get the controller's attention and alert him to the fact that he thought the flight was headed into danger?


Thanks

BP244

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by Baronpilot244

OK. So here is the scenario: N123AB departs XYZ on an IFR flight plan flying runway heading and is handed off to departure. Departure controller reports radar contact turn right Hdg 270, climb and maintain 4,000. Leveling at 4000 the controller says turn right, heading 230 contact approach 123.45.

Pilot of N123AB checks on level 4000.

The flight is a repositioning flight to a satellite airport about 25nm away and usual practice is to clear the flight through Class B airspace and through a corridor over the main airport on a heading of 180.

As the flight progresses the pilot realizes the heading he is on is not taking him directly over the top of the main airport but he assumes the controller has reasons for not issuing a heading of 180. However, being cautious, our hero keys the mic and broadcasts to the controller that N123AB is on a 230 heading - FYI! The controller does not respond to this radio call and is then busy with other aircraft.

Suddenly the Traffic system in N123AB alerts the pilot to traffic bearing down on him - it is too late, he realizes he is slap in the arrival path of airliners on approach to the main airport and they are within 1 - 200 feet of his altitude.
The controller now comes alive and begins issuing traffic alerts to the pilot of N123AB. The situation is not good and a large airliner has to take evasive action but doesn't have to completely abort the approach.

After things have settled down the pilot of N123AB calls the controller once again. The controller does not reply, so our hero tries again and then a third time. Finally the controller responds and our hero asks the controller if he missed an instruction.
The controller replies, no you didn't - I missed turning you, but thanks for helping me out avoiding all that traffic.

Now! This is not to try and figure out who was at fault but to look at how this could be avoided and here are a few questions to help us along:

1 When checking on with a controller when the flight is on an assigned heading is it imperative that the pilot inform the controller of his heading, even if he wasn't asked to do so by the previous controller? not normally necessary..but not a bad idea if , in your case, you knew this was not a heading for the corridor

2 Do controllers automatically inform the next sector of the flight's altitude and heading (if on an assigned vector)previous controller did...young inexperienced

3 What would you as the pilot do? Would you turn to the heading that you assume is going to be given - i.e. 180 as you know that is where you are supposed to be. no..i would adamantly try to get controller attention

4 Do you think the pilot did enough to get the controller's attention and alert him to the fact that he thought the flight was headed into danger?yes


Thanks

BP244

lemme guess, 230 heading through all three final at ATL. at 5000. *******scary ****. watched the replay tonight gave me chills.

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

lemme guess, 230 heading through all three final at ATL. at 5000. *******scary ****. watched the replay tonight gave me chills.

So this was essentially a true story?

[meritflyer]

The controller can take the heat for his 'lack of', I on the other hand have a responsibility for the safe operation of a flight as PIC which is clearly stated in FAR 91.3. When checking in I'll always state my last assigned heading for example, Jetcareers Center Cessa 1234 level 4000, 185 heading assigned.

If Mr. Controller wants to put me or my ship in harms way, I'll damn near turn it and let him deal with it.

[Baronpilot244]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

lemme guess, 230 heading through all three final at ATL. at 5000. *******scary ****. watched the replay tonight gave me chills.

You guess correctly, Sir! And yes it was *******scary from the cockpit too!

BP244

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by Stinger

So this was essentially a true story?

The entire thing is true.

[TripleSticks]

Originally Posted by Baronpilot244

You guess correctly, Sir! And yes it was *******scary from the cockpit too!

BP244

Hey Buddy. I didn't know you were on JC. I'm just glad you're ok. That's the important thing.

I'll tell you what gives me the chills.... a guy with the screen name of ATLTRACON saying that he had the chills after watching the tapes. Yikes!!! That's not good. Not good at all.

Have you gone over the top of ATL since this incident?

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

The entire thing is true.

Yeah, I read the ATO briefing pages on Monday. Very busy/hectic weekend at a a few facilities.

It was just minute after minute of OE/D's.

[Barty]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

lemme guess, 230 heading through all three final at ATL. at 5000. *******scary ****. watched the replay tonight gave me chills.

Quasi off-topic, but how long are ATC tapes kept around? 6-8 years too long ago?

Also, do you know someone by the name of Buzz there at A80?

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Barty

Quasi off-topic, but how long are ATC tapes kept around? 6-8 years too long ago?

I believe the tapes are kept for a minimum of 45 days. Some places keep them a few days longer, but it just depends on the on how much extra the facility wants.

[Baronpilot244]

Originally Posted by TripleSticks

Hey Buddy. I didn't know you were on JC. I'm just glad you're ok. That's the important thing.

I'll tell you what gives me the chills.... a guy with the screen name of ATLTRACON saying that he had the chills after watching the tapes. Yikes!!! That's not good. Not good at all.

Have you gone over the top of ATL since this incident?

no! I've been away up North to Canada, but I'm headed to Nashville tomorrow so I guess we'll see - one thing is certain if I am a degree off what looks like the corridor I'm going to be mashing that mic button hard!
However when the controller sees the tail number I'll probably be vectored into PDK via Augusta!!!!! Ha ha ha!

[chrisatc]

Originally Posted by Barty

Quasi off-topic, but how long are ATC tapes kept around? 6-8 years too long ago? Tapes and data are kept for 45 days unless there is an accident, in which case they will be preserved indefinitely.

Also, do you know someone by the name of Buzz there at A80?

Buzz retired about a year ago and is enjoying the good life in Florida.

[chrisatc]

Originally Posted by Baronpilot244

no! I've been away up North to Canada, but I'm headed to Nashville tomorrow so I guess we'll see - one thing is certain if I am a degree off what looks like the corridor I'm going to be mashing that mic button hard!
However when the controller sees the tail number I'll probably be vectored into PDK via Augusta!!!!! Ha ha ha!

I believe you will be receiving the red carpet treatment around here

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by chrisatc

I believe you will be receiving the red carpet treatment around here

And an official A80 mug and t-shirt saying, "I survived the 4 deals over GA and all I got was this stupid t-shirt".

[Cptnchia]

Originally Posted by chrisatc

Buzz retired about a year ago and is enjoying the good life in Florida.

"And good day to you Sir!"



Never could get the last word in with Buzz.