Some in flight photos from MXP-JFK

[Doug Taylor]

Before launch to MXP:


The ALPS




Lufthansa Airbus 340 over the tracks. About 1000 feet below on Track "D". The Europeans fly faster because oil is cheaper because their currency is largely worth far more.


Video:


Ice over the Canadian Maritimes:


Cargolux 747 passing us over the Candian Maritimes. No, CanadianATC was not working... I asked!


Video:




Funny addition onto the jumpseater briefing sticker:

[Polar742]

Great shots. What speed do ya'll cross at?

[Doug Taylor]

Today, I think it was .80

What was interesting, the first hint we had that someone was passing us 1000 below was the GPWS screaming mid fight.

"TERRAIN TERRAIN! ONE THOUSAND! TERRAIN TERRAIN!"

Happened twice.

[Cruise]

Nice shots Dough.....Thanks for posting 'em!

[skidz]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Today, I think it was .80

What was interesting, the first hint we had that someone was passing us 1000 below was the GPWS screaming mid fight.

"TERRAIN TERRAIN! ONE THOUSAND! TERRAIN TERRAIN!"

Happened twice.

So GPWS is not smart enough to know that the terrain can't be that high?

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Is that SELCAL code written in grease pencil?

And "7. Vote for Pedro" HAHA!

[sorrygottarunway]

"So GPWS is not smart enough to know that the terrain can't be that high?"

Lufthansa is a mountain of a company...

[coa787]

Nice shots, Doug. It's about time you posted some flying pictures.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Originally Posted by coa787

Nice shots, Doug. It's about time you posted some flying pictures.

Seriously, who cares about pictures of funky dilapidated European structures and cobblestone streets. Dis be an aeroplane website... x 10,000,000,0

[the_dmn8tr]

What? No pictures of your awesome meals?

Other than that, good pics.

[AA34]

Really cool shots. Is it true that Euro airlines fly faster that their American competitors due to the currency issue?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Today, I think it was .80

What was interesting, the first hint we had that someone was passing us 1000 below was the GPWS screaming mid fight.

"TERRAIN TERRAIN! ONE THOUSAND! TERRAIN TERRAIN!"

Happened twice.

I actually had the RA display 2000' at cruise altitude yesterday. Not like it's anything like flying on the North Atlantic track system but the SouthernJets 737 under us was just in the right spot for a moment.

Cool pictures.

[Matt13C]

Is it common for jets to fly that close to each other? Shouldn't ATC let you know they are coming or do they just place total faith that all the equipment is working correctly?

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Is it common for jets to fly that close to each other? Shouldn't ATC let you know they are coming or do they just place total faith that all the equipment is working correctly?

There's no really good form of ATC out there. No radar coverage and HF radio is anything but good. You (dispatch) plan the flight, you fly the plan and TCAS is there to back it all up.

I've gotten plenty of RAs from other planes, but I've never had the radar altimeter setting of a terrain alert off of a skin paint. That's pretty cool that the system actually works.

[Polar742]

Since the advent of GPS it seems like the funky GPWS is happening alot more. We're able to fly so precise that you fly right down the center of the airplanes below. Since GPWS is radar altimeter based, you get the "WHOOOP WHOOOOP PULL UP, TERRAIN, TERRAIN" as it "sees" rapidly rising terrain (which, of course is someone bustin' underneath you).

As far as flying with other airplanes that close, that is a function of RVSM and RNP which are aircraft standards for accuracy. Aircraft are separated by altitude (which all ATC does) and by lateral milage. If you're on the North Atlantic (NAT) tracks, you can always look and see other planes (if it's clear). Since there is no radar coverage, everything is based on flight plan speed and time. Depending on if you use SATCOM or HF, you relay your position. If you use HF like we do, then you talk to a radio relay station. They send your information to ATC.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Is it common for jets to fly that close to each other? Shouldn't ATC let you know they are coming or do they just place total faith that all the equipment is working correctly?

In RVSM airspace over the Atlantic, there's no radar and only 1000 vertical separation between aircraft.

ATC can't tell you because there really is no ATC or radar coverage.

[Matt13C]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

There's no really good form of ATC out there. No radar coverage and HF radio is anything but good. You (dispatch) plan the flight, you fly the plan and TCAS is there to back it all up.

I've gotten plenty of RAs from other planes, but I've never had the radar altimeter setting of a terrain alert off of a skin paint. That's pretty cool that the system actually works.

Thanks. So it is up to you to fly your planned route? What if you have to divert around a storm, are there set procedures to keep needed separation or are you relying on the TCAS?

They need to incorporate sound capabilities into GPS satellites, if they already haven't.

Sorry for all the questions. I am a long way from needing to know this, I am just curious.

Great pics by the way. With all the negative talk about airline futures and pilot job security these help keep me excited about learning to become a pilot.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Thanks. So it is up to you to fly your planned route? What if you have to divert around a storm, are there set procedures to keep needed separation or are you relying on the TCAS?

You can take an 'offset' up to I think 3 miles, I can't remember, but for the most part, you do not deviate much because there are a lot of airplanes and you do not want to rely on TCAS for separation whatsoever. It's more 'informational' than it is representative of the traffic around you.

They need to incorporate sound capabilities into GPS satellites, if they already haven't.

We already have SATCOM. On most modern aircraft, you only have to use the HF radio maybe two or three times over the NATS as you change from Gander Oceanic to Shanwick Oceanic or Santa Maria, and the position reporting is send thru SATCOM automatically.

Basically, most big boys use CPDLC or FMC reporting.

[coa787]

I think that on the NAT Tracks, you can only do a maximum offset of about two nautical miles to the right of your route.

[charlie1017]

Cool pics Doug!

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Originally Posted by coa787

Nice shots, Doug. It's about time you posted some flying pictures.

Great pics as always!

Originally Posted by the_dmn8tr

What? No pictures of your awesome meals?

Other than that, good pics.

You holdin out on us?

[Mad Doggy Dog]

Originally Posted by Matt13C

Thanks. So it is up to you to fly your planned route? What if you have to divert around a storm, are there set procedures to keep needed separation or are you relying on the TCAS?

It is rare for thunderstorms to poke their heads above 30000' over the N. Atlantic. In the summer you may have to deviate around them near the Canadian coastline.

If you do have to deviate more than a few miles off track, then you climb 300' for south of track deviations [I remember this by saying: "the south shall rise again,"] or descend 300' for northerly deviation, [north = cold = shrinkage.] When pilots deviate over the Atlantic, they will announce it over the radio. Word gets passed on where the bad wx is.

Routes crossing the Azores [BCN-ATL] may require some deviating year round.

Routes going to Africa definitely will require deviating. The thunderstorms along the way do not show up well on radar either, and tend to top out very high, when nearing the intertropical convergence zone.

Same deal for S. America.

Crossing the ITCZ will rock your world. Literally. But hey, the folks paid for an airplane ride.............and they're gettin one!

[coa787]

What do TRSW and ITCZ mean?

[Mad Doggy Dog]

ITCZ = Inter Tropical Convergence Zone.

Expect to get the snot shaken out of you when flying from the US to South America or Africa.

Bad rides and bad weather from 15 degrees north to 10 degrees south latitiudes.

[coa787]

Thanks. I also had a feeling that TRSW had something to do with thunderstorms, but I wasn't quite sure.