Republic May Now Be Worse Than You Know Who...

[Velocipede]

That's the point, everyone. There are plenty of ways to support your family WITHOUT crossing a picket line. For me, its NEVER an option. Because there's alway pushing shopping carts at Albertson's.

HOWEVER, those who say they would cross if it was the last option have the kind of "flexible" morality that would allow them to cross WITHOUT going to the supermaket and getting a minimum wage job.

They're the kind of people who take substandard wage jobs. They're the kind of people who get infected with SJS and will do anything for that "jet upgrade".

The key is the mentality, "Yeah, I would scab if it was the last option." Funny, they never really go "lower" themselves to actually apply at McD's. They just say "F-U" and cross the picket line.

To me a picket line is a brick wall. To some others here, crossing is an option. This thread illustrates just how many people are really willing to scab. Why?

"I had to feed my family."

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

That's the point, everyone. There are plenty of ways to support your family WITHOUT crossing a picket line. For me, its NEVER an option. Because there's alway pushing shopping carts at Albertson's.

And as long as that option is available, you take it.

HOWEVER, those who say they would cross if it was the last option have the kind of "flexible" morality that would allow them to cross WITHOUT going to the supermaket and getting a minimum wage job.

Wrong.

They're the kind of people who take substandard wage jobs. They're the kind of people who get infected with SJS and will do anything for that "jet upgrade".

Wrong again.

The key is the mentality, "Yeah, I would scab if it was the last option." Funny, they never really go "lower" themselves to actually apply at McD's. They just say "F-U" and cross the picket line.

Strike three...oooh...got him with a curveball on the outside corner.

To me a picket line is a brick wall. To some others here, crossing is an option. This thread illustrates just how many people are really willing to scab. Why?

"I had to feed my family."

Yep. Family first. I'm sure neither you nor any other pilot is going to help my family when medicine, food or shelter are necessary.

Just curious. How deep does your hatred of scabs run? Do you deny your own company pilots a jumpseat if they're on the list?

-mini

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by minitour

Just curious. How deep does your hatred of scabs run? Do you deny your own company pilots a jumpseat if they're on the list?

Hey, sport, you said you'd scab. Not me.

And, yes, we have two scabs. They don't ask for jumpseats.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Hey, sport, you said you'd scab. Not me.

And, yes, we have two scabs. They don't ask for jumpseats.

I'm just curious, "pal". If they ask, are you denying them?

-mini

[Velocipede]

Absolutely. Section 115.E.2 of the ALPA admin manual says I can ask for a Union Card as additional identification. Since they don't have a card, they don't ride the jumpseat.

Is that plain enough for you? So go ahead and scab. There's another privilege you'll lose...the jumpseat.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Absolutely. Section 115.E.2 of the ALPA admin manual says I can ask for a Union Card as additional identification. Since they don't have a card, they don't ride the jumpseat.

Ah yes, hiding behind the "manual" again. Why not just nut up and tell them no because they're on the scab list? It's your jumpseat afterall....

Is that plain enough for you? So go ahead and scab. There's another privilege you'll lose...the jumpseat.

Quite plain enough. Just not sure why you have to hide behind the manual when you're perfectly capable of just saying "no" of your own free will. That's the ITG syndrome, pops. You just don't have the backbone to say "no" just to say "no"...you need to be told how to run your plane from the manual.

If the day comes where there are no jobs to be had down at the local WalMart passing out smiley stickers or at the local Sheetz making MTO sandwiches, and I'm faced with crossing the picket line or letting my family starve I'm not going to be caring about a jumpseat. Family first. Period. Everyone else is a distant second.

-mini

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Is that plain enough for you? So go ahead and scab. There's another privilege you'll lose...the jumpseat.

In the scenarios everyone except you is evaluating this discussion on, I doubt a jumpseat (or your airline career) even shows up on the radar of what's important.

[n77j]

Velo
"However, YOU undercut 300 good jobs by 30% thereby dooming yourselves to a top career pay rate of $96 an hour. Hope you can put your kids through college on that. I guess you'd better downgrade your dreams a little."



---Owe... you also forgot....the beautiful vacation home in Lake Tahoe....ok keep on....

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

That's the point, everyone. There are plenty of ways to support your family WITHOUT crossing a picket line. For me, its NEVER an option. Because there's alway pushing shopping carts at Albertson's.

Oh, so you DID understand what he said.

HOWEVER, those who say they would cross if it was the last option have the kind of "flexible" morality that would allow them to cross WITHOUT going to the supermaket and getting a minimum wage job.

That's a huge stretch.....unless you're a mind reader or a Gypsy with insane tarot reading talents, there's no way you can make that assumption about a person.

The key is the mentality, "Yeah, I would scab if it was the last option." Funny, they never really go "lower" themselves to actually apply at McD's. They just say "F-U" and cross the picket line.

I'll say it right now. I'd scab if it were an absolute LAST resort. As in my unemployment is about to run out, we can't pay bills b/c of health issues and I can't get a job anywhere else, then I'd do it. To say "I'd never scab" is a bit unrealistic. There's always a slim chance (especially with today's unemployment rate) that you wouldn't be able to find something. If you, by some miracle, found yourself in that situation, you are HONESTLY saying you'd rather your family starve/die than cross a picket line?

[minitour]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

If you, by some miracle, found yourself in that situation, you are HONESTLY saying you'd rather your family starve/die than cross a picket line?

Yes, he is. Amazing, isn't it?

-mini

[jtrain609]

I won't cross a picket line.

And you know that's not just BS coming from me, Steve.

[minitour]

So you'd let you family go homeless and starve?

-mini

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by minitour

So you'd let you family go homeless and starve?

-mini

I think there are a few people letting their imaginations run wild on worst case scenarios, and there's a few people still stuck on "well I'd just go work at mcdonalds" even though the first group is well past that scenario. So the two camps aren't even really discussing the same issue.

It's all academic anyways. In any remotely plausible situation you could, in fact, get a job somewhere (which makes it easy for some people to say "never" because they can keep looking tough while at the same time knowing the true "last choice" situation can almost never happen).

Plus it's the internet dude. I'm a 6 foot 4 Olympic powerlifting street fighting god.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Clocks

Plus it's the internet dude. I'm a 6 foot 4 Olympic powerlifting street fighting god.

I'm Chuck Norris. FTW

-mini

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by minitour

So you'd let you family go homeless and starve?

-mini

No, he, like many other people, would utilize the various other skills he has to provide for his family.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

No, he, like many other people, would utilize the various other skills he has to provide for his family.

Two words: reading comprehension.

-mini

[jtrain609]

I've got no reading comp problems, and I'm not some internet tough guy. I'm 5'10" and 155 lbs. of pasty white dudeness.

I would not cross a picket line if my family was starving. In the unrealistic situation you're attempting to describe, there would be many more problems than simply being "forced to cross a picket line." At that point there's probably a damned near civil war going on over the horrid economic conditions occurring.

You'll find me in the streets with a shotgun at that point helping the revolution and defending my family, not crossing any picket lines.

I mean seriously where do you guys even come up with this stuff?

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by minitour

Ah yes, hiding behind the "manual" again. Why not just nut up and tell them no because they're on the scab list? It's your jumpseat afterall....

Correct. I don't quote the manual to anyone except the Chief Pilot should he ask why I denied them. To date, he hasn't asked.

If the day comes where there are no jobs to be had down at the local WalMart passing out smiley stickers or at the local Sheetz making MTO sandwiches, and I'm faced with crossing the picket line or letting my family starve I'm not going to be caring about a jumpseat. Family first. Period. Everyone else is a distant second.

You keep saying that, but the bottom line is YOU'LL CROSS A PICKET LINE. And there's a term for that.

Originally Posted by kellwolf

That's a huge stretch.....unless you're a mind reader or a Gypsy with insane tarot reading talents, there's no way you can make that assumption about a person.

No it isn't he has said repeatedly he'd scab. I'm just taking him at his word.

I'll say it right now. I'd scab if it were an absolute LAST resort. As in my unemployment is about to run out, we can't pay bills b/c of health issues and I can't get a job anywhere else, then I'd do it...If you, by some miracle, found yourself in that situation, you are HONESTLY saying you'd rather your family starve/die than cross a picket line?

So, you'd scab. I'll take your word for it. I'm not calling you a scab, you're saying here, in public you'd scab.

No, I wouldn't cross the picket line. I'd put the wife to work. I'd manage to feed the family somehow, but I wouldn't scab.

But, I guess you're the expert on yourself. Down deep you'd cross. You've admitted it. Wow. Just wow.

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I won't cross a picket line.

I believe you. Why? Because you commuted across the country to work for a Union carrier when you could have worked for a non-Union airline in your hometown.

You're a man who lives his principles. And men like that won't cross a picket line under any circumstances.

Individuals without principles play the "I had to feed my family" card as a justification for scabbing.

Originally Posted by minitour

So you'd let you family go homeless and starve?

No, of course not. They wouldn't. I'd do whatever necessary, but I won't cross a picket line. And to imagine there would be absolutely no work available after you sold everything for either you or your spouse is patently ridiculous.

But, you'd never go that far. You'd scab. You've said so. Again, I take you at your word.

For me, scabbing isn't an option.

Originally Posted by surreal1221

No, he, like many other people, would utilize the various other skills he has to provide for his family.

Exactly. Skills everyone who is an airline pilot possesses. Face it, you can't earn the licenses and qualifications to get our job without having a lot on the ball.

That's why it mystifies me when pilots go to work for non-Union airlines or cross picket lines. There are plenty of ways to support the family out there that don't involve aviation. The bottom line is most pilots are too lazy to go out an get a 40 hour a week job. We're a bunch of spoiled kids and are unwilling to give up the cushy flight deck job even if we have to work for 35% below standard wages.

Some of us even lack the moral backbone to refuse to cross a picket line. "I had to feed my family." That's the scab's mantra. As demonstrated on this thread...

Originally Posted by minitour

Two words: reading comprehension.

My reading comprehension is fine. You, Kell and Prag said you'd scab. Protestations aside ("IF there were no other jobs! Wah!"), you'd scab. You all said it. And that is the bottom line.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I've got no reading comp problems, and I'm not some internet tough guy. I'm 5'10" and 155 lbs. of pasty white dudeness.

I would not cross a picket line if my family was starving. In the unrealistic situation you're attempting to describe, there would be many more problems than simply being "forced to cross a picket line." At that point there's probably a damned near civil war going on over the horrid economic conditions occurring.

You'll find me in the streets with a shotgun at that point helping the revolution and defending my family, not crossing any picket lines.

I mean seriously where do you guys even come up with this stuff?

You are miles above Velo's reading abilities. At least you admit you'd watch Emily starve. Velo is still stuck on "I'd make my wife work" (i.e. the term "last resort" is beyond his level of understanding). But I don't think anyone expects to have conversations with Velo any more. He storms into threads, screams uncontrollably and damn near incomprehensibly from his soapbox, and some people walking by take the bait.

I honestly don't know what I'd do. But when the crap really hits the fan, my family > *. And * includes my career, velo's approval, and well, everything.

But you're right, it's silly, and we're talking about a situation that could only reasonably exist if the country was on the verge of revolution. I'll be marching down the street with you carrying my (what will by then be) illegal guns.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Clocks

You are miles above Velo's reading abilities. At least you admit you'd watch Emily starve. Velo is still stuck on "I'd make my wife work" (i.e. the term "last resort" is beyond his level of understanding). But I don't think anyone expects to have conversations with Velo any more. He storms into threads, screams uncontrollably and damn near incomprehensibly from his soapbox, and some people walking by take the bait.

I honestly don't know what I'd do. But when the crap really hits the fan, my family > *. And * includes my career, velo's approval, and well, everything.

But you're right, it's silly, and we're talking about a situation that could only reasonably exist if the country was on the verge of revolution. I'll be marching down the street with you carrying my (what will by then be) illegal guns.

Viva le revolution!

[mikecweb]

Are we really discussing what we'd do if the impossible arrives and others are bashing what others would do if the impossible arrives?
Ironically if the impossible did arrive you wouldn't afford to have the internet so you wouldn't have to deal with reading this. There now the impossible sounds a little better.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Are we really discussing what we'd do if the impossible arrives and others are bashing what others would do if the impossible arrives?
Ironically if the impossible did arrive you wouldn't afford to have the internet so you wouldn't have to deal with reading this. There now the impossible sounds a little better.

You want impossible? Me discussing buying a gun! How's that for impossible.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

You want impossible? Me discussing buying a gun! How's that for impossible.

communist....

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

So, you'd scab. I'll take your word for it. I'm not calling you a scab, you're saying here, in public you'd scab.

No, I wouldn't cross the picket line. I'd put the wife to work. I'd manage to feed the family somehow, but I wouldn't scab.

But, I guess you're the expert on yourself. Down deep you'd cross. You've admitted it. Wow. Just wow.

Wife's in a wheelchair or bed ridden. What now? See where this is going? Sure, fine. If I'm down to my last, absolute choice. No one will hire me. My wife can't work. My kid's sick and needs medical attention, yeah, I'd cross the picket line. I'd swallow my pride and do it if it meant life or death for my family, but it would take THAT to get me to do it. If that makes me a scab, I hope to GOD I never have to humble myself to catch a ride on your jumpseat.

Saying you'd NEVER cross a picket line is nuts. People really shouldn't deal in absolutes, and Jtrain, you KNOW that.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

People really shouldn't deal in absolutes, and Jtrain, you KNOW that.

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Ironically if the impossible did arrive you wouldn't afford to have the internet so you wouldn't have to deal with reading this.

That's deep, man.

-mini