ASA management endorses GoJet

[ATN_Pilot]

Un-frickin-believable. I was forwarded this by a friend at ASA. Apparently ASA CP Scott Hall encourages pseudo-scabbing. I hope the ASA furloughees here at JC don't take the bait:

I have made contact with one of my Flt Ops friends at GoJets. They will be continuing to hire in 2009 for their CRJ700 fleet and are looking for current and qualified CRJ pilots. Current plans call for more CRJ700 deliveries in 2009.

If you are interested in working there, then please submit a resume to me or a Chief Pilot by Wednesday, January 14. I plan to mail them directly to my contact for consideration. If you miss that date, I will coordinate another mailing a week or so later. Nothing prevents you from sending them a resume directly, but I will be able to get your resumes into the hands of the hiring managers quicker for consideration.

We will make allowances in schedules for those that get interviews. I am still talking to them on whether or not you have to resign from ASA in order to be hired at GoJets.

As I work other contacts I have in the industry I will advise but this is the best lead I have now that shows promise.
Scott

[aloft]

Or maybe ASA CP Scott Hall has done his homework on the subject and found the commonly-accepted version of the GoJet story lacking.

[trackpilot]

At least he's trying to help out his pilots. Better than nothing...

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by aloft

Or maybe ASA CP Scott Hall has done his homework on the subject and found the commonly-accepted version of the GoJet story lacking.

Don't you find it strange that the only one who agrees with you is an anti-labor management pilot? Perhaps you should think your position through a bit more.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Don't you find it strange that the only one who agrees with you is an anti-labor management pilot? Perhaps you should think your position through a bit more.

He's hardly the only one who agrees with me.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by aloft

Or maybe ASA CP Scott Hall has done his homework on the subject and found the commonly-accepted version of the GoJet story lacking.

From the TSA: http://www.talkairline.com/pilot_con...s_contract.pdf

Section 1.B

1.All flying in and for the scheduled revenue passenger service of the Company and any wet lease or charter flying presently performed or to be performed in the future by the Company, shall be performed by active Pilots on the Trans States Airlines Pilots' Seniority List and shall be flown in accordance with all of the provisions of the Employment agreement and applicable amendments thereto between the Company and the Pilots as represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (AFL-CIO).

2. Notwithstanding paragraph B.l. above, the Company may assign or contract out flying for periods not in excess of ninety (90) days if such conduct is necessary to accomplish the needs of the service of the Company, and the Company does not have sufficient aircraft or pilots available to perform the flying assigned or contracted out and no company pilot is furloughed as a result of such contracting out of such flying

Section 26.Q

1.
The Company shall provide written notice to the Chairman of the Master Executive Council and the Association upon the acquisition or lease of new aircraft other than equipment covered by the rates of pay which are specified in this Agreement. The Association and the Company agree to meet, pursuant to Section 6, Title I, of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, irrespective of the Duration Section of this Agreement to negotiate rates of pay for such aircraft at a mutually agreed time, but not later than sixty (60) days before the aircraft is being placed into revenue service. The rates of pay agreed upon will be retroactive to the first day the aircraft is placed into revenue operation. Nothing in this Agreement shall restrict the Company’s right to acquire new aircraft or place them into service prior to such negotiations.
2.
If the parties are unable to agree upon a rate of pay by the first day the aircraft is placed into revenue service, pilots will be paid the regional airline industry average wage rate, until such time as the parties agree upon a wage rate. The regional airline industry average shall be composed of U.S. certificated air carriers in the regional airline industry operating the same or comparable aircraft and who meet all the following criteria:
a.
Have a code share as a regional feeder with a major airline (as defined by the Department of Transportation);
Trans States (TSA) ALPA Contract S: 8/2/00 E: 8/1/00 A: 7/31/04
Extended to: 7/31/06 (see LOA dated 5/1/03)
b.
Are not currently operating under the protection of bankruptcy laws;
c.
Have a collective bargaining agreement with a labor organization certified by the National Mediation Board (NMB) covering its pilots; and
d.
Are not wholly-owned subsidiaries of a major airline.
If the wage rate cannot be determined because the above criteria does not produce such a wage rate, then the wage rate shall be determined by using the above criteria but “d” above shall be eliminated. If the elimination of “d” above still does not produce a wage rate then the parties shall apply Q1 above.

The company never wanted the TSA pilots to do the flying.

[aloft]

Who precisely is "the Company" as defined in the contract? Trans States Airlines, or Trans States Holdings?

If it's defined in the contract as Trans States Airlines, then the contract provisions cited don't really apply as the flying in question wasn't "in and for the scheduled revenue passenger service of the Company", but that of a sister subsidiary (i.e., GoJet).

Splitting hairs, yes, but that's what contracts do.

[MusketeerMan]

Me thinks Surreal won't have his stuff sent in..just a hunch though.

[ljg]

I'm bored already reading this future argument.

[blee256]

maybe gojets should pick up the pilots that are being furlouhged at TSA. better yet merge them together so TSA doesnt have to furlough and GoJets doesnt have to hire newbies??

What is ASAs MECs stance on this?

However I do agree that at least the CP is trying to help.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Me thinks Surreal won't have his stuff sent in..just a hunch though.

haha - no, of course not. ASA, IMHO, is a much better airline and corporate environment to be a part of. I'm not so void of skills that I'd need to resort to working for an alter-ego company to provide for my family.

Further, I'm not in any rush to run to another regional and resign a seniority # at a home town company so I can commute for the rest of my regional career.

The fact that it's GoJets is icing on my cake.

Unfortunately I have a feeling a couple individuals might get lucky enough to be hired by them. And they'll dance right on over and be happy to have a job so they can feed their "families," and pay their "bills." All any of us should care for is that they do a little research on the company's history for that interview prep and realize the scam job being done.

To each their own at this point, just a sad sick game.

[BajtheJino]

This is ####ing pathetic. And by pathetic I mean you have a PFJ bashing a union airline even though he's not a member of a real union and others saying they'd rather be unemployed than work. Saying something over and over and over and over and over and over still doesn't make something true. How many people are hiring 1000 hr gear monkeys right now?

[JEP]

Moderator Comment

This will be the one and only warning for this thread. If you want to talk about the topic at hand, great. Feel free to do so. If it turns into another pissing match between the users, the thread will be closed in short order.

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I'm sure that most people would rather it Not be Go-jets, but honestly, I doubt anybody else would be taking pilots right now, and I'm also pretty sure that As a CP, he's got a lot more on his plate then following the "line" on each airline. He found a deal, and brought it to his guys.

I'd pick go-jets as well... so that i would be sure to get my pilots back when it became recall time

[jtrain609]

So applying to GoJets off the street is unacceptable, but when your chief helps you get the job it's A-OK?

[surreal1221]

Yeah, I can agree. If I didn't have to resign my #...and if I was silly enough to goto a company like the one being recommended...I'd certainly would be jumping ship to get back to my prior environment. Maybe that's the card he is playing.

JEP, thanks for the warning as well. Funny how the thread was somewhat respectable prior to the crazy post. I got a good laugh though.

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Never said that.

Just saying don't be so fast to jump all over it, or read too deep into it. I would almost bet that this was initiated by Go-Jets, and then forwarded to the pilots.

Not really worth starting a forest fire over... take it for what you will (sarcasm should have been noted at the end of the first post)

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by TUCKnTRUCK

Never said that.

Just saying don't be so fast to jump all over it, or read too deep into it. I would almost bet that this was initiated by Go-Jets, and then forwarded to the pilots.

Not really worth starting a forest fire over... take it for what you will (sarcasm should have been noted at the end of the first post)

A #### bag, alter ego company recruiting pilots while the other side of the house is downgrading at furloughing? Will do boss!

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't feel this way if Pinnacle was hiring and you guys were furloughing, all while your Q's were being transfered over to Pinnacle. How good is your scope clause, BTW?

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

A #### bag, alter ego company recruiting pilots while the other side of the house is downgrading at furloughing? Will do boss!

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't feel this way if Pinnacle was hiring and you guys were furloughing, all while your Q's were being transfered over to Pinnacle. How good is your scope clause, BTW?

?
Grow up, stop being so juvenile. I get it, your pissed at the world, and furloughed

Simply saying don't jump all over ASA for finding some sort of out for their pilots, because I doubt they had any foul intentions.

What does Pinnacle or Colgan have to do with this? If Pinnacle was hiring, and we were furloughing, I would not have ANY issues whatsoever. We are different carriers, and I have no claim to their jobs, nor would i want it. I've tried to bid out of the Q, FWIW

[Cav]

My question for PCL and others is this...

Why is anyone surprised or angered that a CP at ASA is doing this? It's not his job to find avenues for furloughed pilots that are suitable to his company's pilots union. That matter is left to the line pilots and their union. In my experience the CP's aren't exactly the people you should be looking to for union support. Furthermore they aren't even dues paying members so why would they care(at least at my airline)? If the ASA MEC was endorsing it then it's an entirely different matter. Otherwise my response to the original matter is "big deal, what are the line pilots actually doing?"

Disclaimer: In no way am I endorsing ASA pilots to pursue this opportunity in fact I discourage anyone from working at GoJets.

[SteveC]

Creates an interesting dichotomy, doesn't it?

It's difficult to:
1. Give kudos to the CP for trying to help his pilots while at the same time,
2. Discourage pilots from accepting the help because of larger industry issues.


Difficult does not imply impossible though, does it?

[joliet]

What about the guys who could give a #### less about being a 121 scheduled airline pilot for the rest of their lives. The ones who just wanted to get some good experience at a regional, and move on to 91/135.

GoJets would be grrrrrrrrrrreat!

[gtpilot]

Just a little fuel for the fire - technically every regional jet company out there is an alter-ego company that is circumventing scope to get around mainline jobs. TSA is taking jobs from United and US Airways pilots while ASA is taking jobs from mainline Delta pilots, right?

Wrong.

The real problem is mainline pilots gave up scope in the first place by caving into management demands. We can also go round and round all day on TSA/Go-jets but the fact still remains that TSA was limited by scope and could not get and will not get 700s because of that. Personally, I think it was done in a crappy way and would not work for Go-jets anymore than I would for Mesa. However, as a regional pilot myself (and for anyone else who has flown regional jets), there is very little room to be critical of others' career choices.

Peace.
M

[Trip7]

As someone who as personally seen there crews walk around with their badges flipped backwards I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole...

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by aloft

Who precisely is "the Company" as defined in the contract? Trans States Airlines, or Trans States Holdings?

If it's defined in the contract as Trans States Airlines, then the contract provisions cited don't really apply as the flying in question wasn't "in and for the scheduled revenue passenger service of the Company", but that of a sister subsidiary (i.e., GoJet).

Splitting hairs, yes, but that's what contracts do.

You mean holding companies are created to get around contracts so they CAN split hairs....