ASA management endorses GoJet

[aloft]

He's not a bridge I ever planned on using, bro. Besides, what's he gonna do, walk my resume into the sales dept. at Gulfstream?

And what if he were an out-of-the-closet flew-struck-work scab? Would you be as tolerant? Having personally enabled his "employer" to deny jobs to pilots more qualified than he should be every bit as damning as he claims working for GoJet is. And for the damage he personally has done to the profession, by his own standards, he should be universally denied jumpseat privileges as well. Hey, he was the one who came up with the term "pseudo-scab", and if the shoe fits....

Or are we now teaching the JC n00bs that you can be a "blue falcon" all you like, without fear of consequences?

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Aloft, not a personal attack here at all...

But the general way you come across, and an attitude that pretty much seems to scream, throw em under the buss.. Your 121 experience will probably be short, and not much fun. When the plane lands in some obscure place, like Toledo.. and the CA calls scheduling and says get me a new FO NOW, they won't call you and ask why.

In general, "knowing all" about an industry you're not a part of yet is a bad thing. I've had a few FO's slip past the hiring boards and come in with similar attitudes. Many left quickly.. and all were hated. I've participated in many interview sessions, and the "I Know Everything... there is nothing you can teach me" attitude gets weeded out fast - some sent home before the interview even started.

Until you've flown 8 legs a day, in crappy wx, timed out on your last leg.. and had the "business man trying to make a buck" management only pay you for 4 hours cause "that’s the best way to do it" you won't understand. This is also why nobody pays you respect here. You def. come off like a guy who would throw the world under the bus to advance his career. Some are more vocal about it (Pcl) etc but I’m sure many or most feel the same way

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by aloft

He's not a bridge I ever planned on using, bro. Besides, what's he gonna do, walk my resume into the sales dept. at Gulfstream?

From an outsiders point of view, it would seem you fail to realize that you're not only burning the 'PCL_128 bridge' with your continued lack of understanding and complete disdain for those people who are actually working in the industry. Rather, your contempt for those that are here elicits a certain unwillingness to listen to fact. Thereby burning many bridges from people at many different companies. You may say you don't care; and that may be true. But, generally it's counterproductive to one's career to hold that opinion. That being said, just because someone says something on the internets, doesn't 'always' make it right.....however, in regards to GJ, what others have said is, in fact, correct. They are a sham outfit that was created to circumvent the TSA CBA.

Again, this is just my observation on what Doug (and others) is trying to tell you. Something you might want to ponder!?!

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by aloft

The fact that you're not hiring til late summer is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that your company's policy on the subject is the same as GoJet's, which Gulfstream PFJ Boy says is proof of their evilness.



Welcome to the club, man. Welcome to the club.

So he's in the "bought his first 121 job and then realized it's a mistake and went to work for every union he's been a member of club," and you're president of the, "burn every bridge possible because of righteous indignation over something somebody said on the internets club?"

[aloft]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

So he's in the "bought his first 121 job and then realized it's a mistake and went to work for every union he's been a member of club," and you're president of the, "burn every bridge possible because of righteous indignation over something somebody said on the internets club?"

"I'm not only the president of Hair Club, I'm also a member!"

"...went to work for every union he's been a member of"? Dude, he's soured me on unions more than any other member of this site, and I suspect I'm not alone on that. Now if that's your idea of working for something....

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by joliet

I've ridden on NWA in jeans, in the cockpit, in first class, in coach with a nice collared polo shirt. Obviously people are wearing nicer jeans when they do. Anyhow.

NWA mainline must have less stringent appearance guidelines than Pinnacle does. Straight out of our FOM:

Must refuse passage if procedural requirements and dress or appearance codes are not met.

and a few paragraphs down:

All jumpseaters present a neat appearance. If not in uniform, the jumpseater wears First Class attire.

[joliet]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

NWA mainline must have less stringent appearance guidelines than Pinnacle does. Straight out of our FOM:



and a few paragraphs down:

What is first class attire according to your FOM?


Edit: What if I was wearing a violet leisure suit?

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I've never seen a first class that aloows jeans... most say business casual, some specify, uniform, slacks no open toe shoes etc

[WacoFan]

Originally Posted by aloft

"I'm not only the president of Hair Club, I'm also a member!"

"...went to work for every union he's been a member of"? Dude, he's soured me on unions more than any other member of this site, and I suspect I'm not alone on that. Now if that's your idea of working for something....

Here is the mistake that I see people make repeatedly on JC:

You may not agree with PCL, Jtrain, or anyone else about different issues. Jtrain and I have "gotten into it" over issues before and I have certainly disagreed with PCL about things. It is possible for reasonable people to disagree over jump seat issues, union issues, and politics. Having disagreed with both of them, I don't think they hate me, and I don't hate them. In fact, I have offered to let both of them buy me beers on occasion.

If someone is somewhere that you aspire or has been and is furloughed, you should listen mostly. If you check posts, the only time I will make a strident post is in the Lav. I spend MUCH more time on JC outside the Lav however. The reason for this is when I am on the various technical forums, Airline pilot or Freight sections I am a student, and as such I keep my mouth shut and try to learn. If I do post outside of the Lav it is 98% of the time a question and not a statement.

You aren't going to change PCL et al's mind on here any more than they will change yours. If you are in a position that you will want to be in this career, it is best not to burn bridges of any kind and to listen to people with more experience. Whether you agree with it or not it is valuable knowledge that is being shared. If you disagree, simply file it away for future reference to be used at a time when you are in that position.

[cencal83406]

Originally Posted by joliet

What is first class attire according to your FOM?


Edit: What if I was wearing a violet leisure suit?

My mistake for not realizing you *did* work for a 121 carrier. I'm surprised though that your company didn't have the same requirements as ours?

And even if they didn't - why is it so hard not to wear jeans to go in an airplane? Even if I'm sitting in the back somewhere, and I'm not in uniform, I like to not look like the rest of the folks - I like to be dressed nicely.

[joliet]

Oh, I will admit that according to US Airways their Employee Travel Guide states blue jeans are not acceptable first class attire.

According to the Brownstreak FOM, non-uniformed jumpseat occupants will conform to First class travel dress code standards.

I actually only own like two pairs of jeans, which I never wear, I just think it's ridiculous people make such a big deal about it in this day, and age.

[joliet]

Originally Posted by cencal83406

.................

And even if they didn't - why is it so hard not to wear jeans to go in an airplane? Even if I'm sitting in the back somewhere, and I'm not in uniform, I like to not look like the rest of the folks - I like to be dressed nicely.

You are so out of touch...........

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by joliet

I actually only own like two pairs of jeans, which I never wear, I just think it's ridiculous people make such a big deal about it in this day, and age.

Yeah, heaven forbid people actually follow company appearance standards. I'm not a big fan of the hat, but if my company required it, I'd wear it. Why? Because it's a requirement. If you want a free ride, is it REALLY so hard to ditch the jeans? If someone wants to ride my airplane in sweats and a hoody, fine. They can buy a ticket.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Yeah, heaven forbid people actually follow company appearance standards. I'm not a big fan of the hat, but if my company required it, I'd wear it. Why? Because it's a requirement. If you want a free ride, is it REALLY so hard to ditch the jeans? If someone wants to ride my airplane in sweats and a hoody, fine. They can buy a ticket.

And considering it appears the initial comment that started this whole little sub-debate was the fact that someone of the airline flight crew segment at someone's airline was in uniform sans tie. . .

If you want to catch a ride home, either put the tie on, or get the hell out of the uniform and into something else.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by aloft

He's not a bridge I ever planned on using, bro. Besides, what's he gonna do, walk my resume into the sales dept. at Gulfstream?

And what if he were an out-of-the-closet flew-struck-work scab? Would you be as tolerant? Having personally enabled his "employer" to deny jobs to pilots more qualified than he should be every bit as damning as he claims working for GoJet is. And for the damage he personally has done to the profession, by his own standards, he should be universally denied jumpseat privileges as well. Hey, he was the one who came up with the term "pseudo-scab", and if the shoe fits....

Or are we now teaching the JC n00bs that you can be a "blue falcon" all you like, without fear of consequences?

Nah, I'd like to bring folks to the realization that it's a small fishbowl and there are just four or five people active in this thread, it's being watched by hundreds, if not even thousands of people. Some folks may be in positions to help you along your career path.

Yes PCL can be a single-issue preacher, no doubt, and he and I have gone back and forth about that from time to time.

But you, I'd heavily suggest concentrating on building bridges and connections with your fellow users rather than contintually volunteering to be the GoJets "Joan of Arc" at every opportunity.

Trust me. The same guy that you read the riot act online has a high probability of sitting behind you in the simulator box or across the desk during an interview. That's already happened a few times.

Serious. This isn't an attack, I mean this to be as helpful as possible.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by joliet

I actually only own like two pairs of jeans, which I never wear, I just think it's ridiculous people make such a big deal about it in this day, and age.

Welcome to the real world.

I think it's ridiculous that if I'm the only car on the freeway at 0430, that I'll get a ticket for driving 80mph in a 65mph zone by a photo radar device.

But driving is a privilege and not a right, just like jumpseating, so in enjoying the privilege, I've got to conform to acceptable standards.

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Welcome to the real world.

I think it's ridiculous that if I'm the only car on the freeway at 0430, that I'll get a ticket for driving 80mph in a 65mph zone by a photo radar device.

But driving is a privilege and not a right, just like jumpseating, so in enjoying the privilege, I've got to conform to acceptable standards.

I love those things on the bike The required left hand salute covering my face as I speed though to relay the screw you message. Honestly those revenu generators need to go.

Back on topic I guess- are there any who would look at going oversea's from ASA? There can be money there I have heard

[flyingmaniac]

Originally Posted by TUCKnTRUCK

I've never seen a first class that aloows jeans... most say business casual, some specify, uniform, slacks no open toe shoes etc

Here is Delta's Newest Policy:
Nonrevenue and Reduced-Rate Travel Guidelines
The travelers’ overall appearance should be well-groomed, neat, clean, safe and respectful, from head to toe. Simply said, if the attire is appropriate for a revenue passenger to wear, then a nonrevenue passenger can wear the same attire.

Examples
A few examples of attire or styles previously not allowed which are now permitted include:

Shorts
T-shirts
Jeans (in first class)
Flip flops
Ball caps
Tank tops
Tattoos
Body piercing
Extreme hairstyles

[surreal1221]

Anyway - new e-mail.

Doesn't seem they (ASA) is having any trouble getting the shiney eyed to get off the seniority list.

Part of me is thinking this whole furlough deal was long in the works to simply get rid of the temp work hired for the summer of last year. Now, they don't really care what happens to us. Just get them off the list if at all possible.

[ladder360]

Originally Posted by WacoFan

Here is the mistake that I see people make repeatedly on JC:

You may not agree with PCL, Jtrain, or anyone else about different issues. Jtrain and I have "gotten into it" over issues before and I have certainly disagreed with PCL about things. It is possible for reasonable people to disagree over jump seat issues, union issues, and politics. Having disagreed with both of them, I don't think they hate me, and I don't hate them. In fact, I have offered to let both of them buy me beers on occasion.

If someone is somewhere that you aspire or has been and is furloughed, you should listen mostly. If you check posts, the only time I will make a strident post is in the Lav. I spend MUCH more time on JC outside the Lav however. The reason for this is when I am on the various technical forums, Airline pilot or Freight sections I am a student, and as such I keep my mouth shut and try to learn. If I do post outside of the Lav it is 98% of the time a question and not a statement.

You aren't going to change PCL et al's mind on here any more than they will change yours. If you are in a position that you will want to be in this career, it is best not to burn bridges of any kind and to listen to people with more experience. Whether you agree with it or not it is valuable knowledge that is being shared. If you disagree, simply file it away for future reference to be used at a time when you are in that position.

Well said Waco. I would even take it a step further and say that although I don't always agree, I have a heck of a lot of respect for the PCLs and Velos who actively work hard to support the things they view as important to the profession.

[Seggy]

GoJet was fined $500,000 recently by the FAA for shoddy maintenance practices.

[surreal1221]

That sucks...too bad no one cares.

[SFCC/UND]

Originally Posted by Seggy

GoJet was fined $500,000 recently by the FAA for shoddy maintenance practices.

It said Trans States Airlines, I didn't see Gojet anywhere on the page.

Southwest airlines had maintenance problems too, I don't see you making comments about them.

[Seggy]

GoJets does not have their own maintenance department. Everything is contracted through Trans States. Because of oversights on the GoJet side, Trans States got the fine.

[JumpWake]

The bill was handed right to Rick "Pillsbury" Leach, the head of both companies, so it hit both of us. But, you're definitely right Seg, a particularly big oversight on the GJ side of the house led to the fine.