ASA management endorses GoJet

[JumpWake]

...deleted...

[Doug Taylor]

....never posted...?

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

No, Joliet is right. I kicked his ass off because he worked for GoJet. All the other stuff was just icing on the cake.

You're my new hero.

[JumpWake]

Yea yea yea...lol

[JEP]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

You're my new hero.

[Doug Taylor]

The letter reads... "Dear Casey..."

[Doug Taylor]

I just realized that only about 1/2 of a % of anyone would even get that reference. Man, I'm getting old.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by joliet

That's great. Someday when GoJets is the last show in town to jumpseat out because they fly for United, and you have a family member that is in an emergency room several states away, I hope you have it in you to get over yourself, and ride on their plane.

Typical pilot "thinking"...me, Me, ME! Don't deny anyone a jumpseat because someday I might want to fly somewhere. Buy a ticket, cheapskate. Otherwise, never darken the door of a GoJet cockpit asking for a free ride if you don't reciprocate.

Originally Posted by PCL_128

BobDDuck, you did the right thing.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by joliet

or works for a non-ALPA

I repeat. Section 115.E.2 of the ALPA admin manual allows Captains to require union cards as additional identification. Every airline has scabs and "agency shop dues" guys. If you can't show me a Union card, move on to the next flight.

Originally Posted by joliet

He was in CASS which was verified by the gate agent, his ID was seen, the captain obviously knew he was a GoJet pilot by his own assumption.

Just because you're in CASS doesn't mean I can't require additional ID...a Union card.

He never crossed a picket line, (assuming) he just worked at TransStates Holdings, aka GoJets.

You forgot to add, "an alter-ego airline founded to eradicate Union jobs from a Company." That's where the rubber meets the road.

What's next, pulling out a scab list to verify names of first year FOs at a small regional airline? Especially the ones that don't even have to shave yet?

Don't get caught up in your own hyperbole.

The real question is, why even post about a specific situation? To piss off every pilot at GoJets, and anyone who doesn't agree with you, and sees eye to eye with the ridiculous divine teachings that are ALPA.

Again, the whole jumpseat issue boils down to CAPTAIN'S DISCRETION. You should read Section 115 of the ALPA admin manual. It gives individual Captains LOTS of leeway about who the may or may not allow on the jumpseat.

Originally Posted by joliet

Captains authority.

Captains discretion.

See, you are beginning to get it.

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

And Joliet, we each draw the line somewhere. When you get over to the other seat you'll be able to establish your own set of rules for what is and isn't acceptable for you.

Exactly. Its strictly up to individual Captains. MY Union's jumpseat rules allow lots of discretion. So if I am opposed to giving free rides to scabs, alter ego pilots, non-Union narrowbody pilots or even individuals I don't personally care for, I'm covered by ALPA policy.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by joliet

He was in CASS which was verified by the gate agent, his ID was seen, the captain obviously knew he was a GoJet pilot by his own assumption. He told the captain who he worked for, Trans States, when guys asked which airline I worked for I would say USA Jet/ or PSA Airlines, they would say WHOOOOOOOOOo? How often does the guy jumpseat, even the most senior guys at Legacy carries who don't jumpseat often sound like bumbling idiots when they come up to the cockpit.

That's odd. B/c most of the people at my airline actually know who the other 121 airlines are. If if it's just a "Who the heck is Waterski?" on the radio. Those of us in the know generally know the smaller carriers. We also happen to be the ones most likely to boot a GoJets JSer. FWIW, I would have booted the guy, too. Just b/c he's CASS approved doesn't magically make CA's authority null and void. Although, the NWA gate agents like to think so.

I've booted a NWA guy off my flight b/c he was an ass. I'd boot the GoJets guy off b/c I know a LOT of guys at TSA that are losing their jobs while the guys over at GoJets happily grow. The guy had obviously been booted by another CA, otherwise he wouldn't have lied about who he worked for (BTW, the whole argument of no one would really know who he flew for goes out the window considering he said "Trans States" instead of "United Express" or whatever. If the CA doesn't know who GoJets is, odds are damn good they won't know who Trans States is either). So, the dude knows what kind of a stigma he's operating under and choose to roll with it. More power to him, but trying to pull a fast one on the CA (which he blatantly did) makes it worse.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

ALPA isn't engaged in any smear campaign. This is a grass-roots movement. To the best of my knowledge, ALPA hasn't even commented on GoJet in any capacity in several years.

Then who produced this?



Why, it appears ALPA did! Funny how they never produced a similar campaign calling for "Give AE jets back to AE pilots".

Originally Posted by Velocipede

You forgot to add, "an alter-ego airline founded to eradicate Union jobs from a Company." That's where the rubber meets the road.

That's certainly one version of the fable. The more accurate version is "subsidiary created to secure additional business that conflicts with another customer's contract". But we're all free to believe what we choose, I guess.

[surreal1221]

And best of all. . .if GoJets hires you, you will have to resign your ASA #. . .giving up your recall rights.

It keeps getting better.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by aloft

Then who produced this?

That was produced by the TSA MEC.......SEVERAL YEARS AGO!!!!! You aren't too good at the reading for comprehension, are you?

That's certainly one version of the fable. The more accurate version is "subsidiary created to secure additional business that conflicts with another customer's contract". But we're all free to believe what we choose, I guess.

You are still ignoring the successorship language. You can pretend it isn't there if it makes you feel better, but it won't change reality.

[ATN_Pilot]

Another email forwarded by a buddy at ASA:

I have been working to set up the process for interviews at GoJets. There is a class on February 5 that they are filling and have set aside some of the slots for ASA pilots and furloughed United pilots. I am trying to get them to come to Atlanta for interviews next week or no later than the week after. If I am unable then you will have to travel to STL for an interview. There will not be a sim ride but rather just a face to face interview. We will move your work days around for those that wish to attend an interview.

Classes will be ongoing every month for now (probably 8 more). Their current fleet plan is to add additional CRJ700s in the United Express system. Although they were hiring Captains off the street late last year, the classes planned for this year are for First Officer positions.

You will have to resign from ASA in order to be hired by GoJets, therefore you will lose your return rights to ASA. More information to follow.
Scott

So for the "privilege" of getting blacklisted for working at a pseudo-scab operation, you have to resign your seniority rights at a real union airline. Gee, what a deal!

[surreal1221]

I sure hope we don't lose some genuinely good people because they're naive and ignorant to the realities of this profession.

Only time will tell. I'll be really disappointed if some of my closest associates end up drifting over there.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by aloft

That's certainly one version of the fable. The more accurate version is "subsidiary created to secure additional business that conflicts with another customer's contract". But we're all free to believe what we choose, I guess.

I tend to agree with most of your Gojets stuff (I'm not really anti-Gojets and I'd never deny them a jumpseat assuming I make Captain) BUT you are way off base here. There are several airlines with one seniority list but multiple certificates (think Mesa, Republic Holdings, and I think even Eagle) to get around mainline scope clauses. Gojets management is directly undermining the seniority list at TSA to hire first year pay pilots.

They know what they are doing, we know what they are doing, everyone knows it but unfortunately ALPA lost the lawsuit. TSA pilots really got the shaft.

[JumpWake]

Originally Posted by aloft

Then who produced this?



Why, it appears ALPA did! Funny how they never produced a similar campaign calling for "Give AE jets back to AE pilots".

You want one? I've noticed you eyeing it...I've got more!

Originally Posted by aloft

That's certainly one version of the fable. The more accurate version is "subsidiary created to secure additional business that conflicts with another customer's contract". But we're all free to believe what we choose, I guess.

We certainly all are free to believe whatever, but if you believe is the 'accurate' version...then there really is no helping you.



I know a couple guys at ASA and I've talked to them about this. They dont plan on making the jump, thankfully, but I fear the prospect of flying that brand new shiny next-gen 700 is going to be too much for some to turn down. Good luck to you guys over there.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I tend to agree with most of your Gojets stuff (I'm not really anti-Gojets and I'd never deny them a jumpseat assuming I make Captain) BUT you are way off base here. There are several airlines with one seniority list but multiple certificates (think Mesa, Republic Holdings, and I think even Eagle) to get around mainline scope clauses. Gojets management is directly undermining the seniority list at TSA to hire first year pay pilots.

They know what they are doing, we know what they are doing, everyone knows it but unfortunately ALPA lost the lawsuit. TSA pilots really got the shaft.

Based on the research I've done, I don't believe that's a true account of the story. The comment you replied to was solely in response to the statement that GoJet is "an alter-ego airline founded to eradicate Union jobs from a Company", which is absurd if you look at the history. Kanodia created GoJet to secure the United CRJ700 flying, since he couldn't do it under the TSA banner due to its contract with AMR. He subsequently entered into negotiations with the TSA MEC to have TSA pilots perform the flying. However lowball his initial offers were (and you can't really fault a guy for trying...he's a businessman, after all), the fact that he did so proves his intention was to run an RAH-type multiple certificates/single seniority list arrangement, which counters the notion that he created GoJet simply to screw the TSA pilots out of that flying. Sure, he might be that evil, but I'd venture to guess that he's more greedy than evil, and the UAL CRJ700 flying had far too much potential to simply drop because his pilot group refused to do it.

But as I've said, I'm no longer interested in convincing anyone of anything regarding GoJet. Believe whatever you like.

Gonzo: nobody else worth working for is hiring. I'm sure not gonna go to Great Lakes for $14k/yr and no pay during training.

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by JetsGoWhee

You want one? I've noticed you eyeing it...I've got more!

Why yes, actually I do want one. And, I would be more than willing to distribute them in the EWR crewroom.

If you're serious about having extras and willing to send 'em out....I'll place an order for as many as you can spare. I'm certain I can find takers to support your cause. Your ALPA local to mine....I'll PM you my address, let me know.







And Ethan, I'm 1000% with you (not that it matters) on your call to kick that D-bag off your flight. Kudos to you, good sir!!!!

[JumpWake]

Originally Posted by Cruise

Why yes, actually I do want one. And, I would be more than willing to distribute them in the EWR crewroom.

If you're serious about having extras and willing to send 'em out....I'll place an order for as many as you can spare. I'm certain I can find takers to support your cause. Your ALPA local to mine....I'll PM you my address, let me know.

Cool. As PCL pointed out, those stickers are indeed from when this whole debacle started a couple years ago. I've only got a handful left, and I don't think they're actually being produced anymore, but let me do some research, and I'll see what I can do. I'll definitely try get a couple up to ya though.

[surreal1221]

I'd like to get a couple if possible.

Especially before too many of my peers end up ruining their aviation careers.

[zmiller4]

For what it's worth, the only Gojet jumpseater I've seen at Skywest got kicked off by the captain. And that's at my non-union "pseudo-scab" airline.

[chris]

Velo,

I thought you don't care about regional issues??

As per your post in the Allegiant thread... "Im not too worried about regional issues. My issue is with non-Union pilots who fly narrow body or larger jets at wages that undercut mine.
Let the regional guys worry about their own issues."

http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline...allegiant.html

I'm just saying...

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Man, a night out with "The Do", BirthdayGirl and the Mrs. and I guess I've got some reading to do...

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by joliet

Yeah it makes about as much sense as kicking someone off who paid for their job at Gulfstream, or works for a non-ALPA airline full of scabs like ValuJet/AirTran.

Darn tootin'.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by aloft

Based on the research I've done, I don't believe that's a true account of the story. The comment you replied to was solely in response to the statement that GoJet is "an alter-ego airline founded to eradicate Union jobs from a Company", which is absurd if you look at the history. Kanodia created GoJet to secure the United CRJ700 flying, since he couldn't do it under the TSA banner due to its contract with AMR. He subsequently entered into negotiations with the TSA MEC to have TSA pilots perform the flying. However lowball his initial offers were (and you can't really fault a guy for trying...he's a businessman, after all), the fact that he did so proves his intention was to run an RAH-type multiple certificates/single seniority list arrangement, which counters the notion that he created GoJet simply to screw the TSA pilots out of that flying. Sure, he might be that evil, but I'd venture to guess that he's more greedy than evil, and the UAL CRJ700 flying had far too much potential to simply drop because his pilot group refused to do it.

I would suggest that by TSA management lowballing their offer to "let" TSA pilots in on the action at Gojets - that was a form of union busting. While Gojet was created to get around scope issues it was also used to put downward pressure on pilot wages...ie union busting.

The conspiracy theorist in me says while he might've offered to have TSA pilots fly those planes he did so at such a level that he knew they would reject it. He can now say "Hey I tried!" and walk away feeling good.